Lead Poisoning

[RockyMtnMT]

Steve posted the eagle video which is an obvious attack on the lead bullet industry. and then made a gelatin test video but failed to mention the competitor's bullet by name. He didn't answer me when I asked which manufacturer, what load for either bullets, or what diameter paper clip to check the hollow point.

It's all in the thread. I can find it for you if you like. If you are not able to figure out the competitor bullet, I don't know what to say.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Public attacks? How was that a public attack? Hammer bullets partnered with a group pushing for ban on lead bullets.

Troll? Once again, a bullet manufacturer posted a video about them partnering with a group talking about how bad lead bullets are. Posting that video creates dialogue. Are we only supposed to respond if we agree?

I've never once said anything derogatory, inflammatory, or anything that could be construed by an open minded individual as attacking. The fact that you'd even post this blows my mind.

We did not partner with anyone. We showed what we do and what products we offer in a documentary designed to give information to the hunting community.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Steve, what makes the cost difference in lead versus your bullets ? Is it the lathe turning cost vs swaging being cheaper and faster ? Thanks

Pretty much time. Material cost is more but really not the player in final cost. Each bullet takes about 20-30 sec to make. The cup and core exponentially more in the same time. Then there is the rest of the labor to get the product into final package.

 

[K.E.C. Darkside]

Put that on the windows so birds can read it. Cars too.

Don't forget Windmills

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I certainly respect that decisions you have made as a business, and agree we can all do little things to help. I have even used your product in a couple of rifles I have . I appreciate the dialogue, and am certainly not trying to challenge you or the conversation you had, but I still would be interested to know if it is possible to rule out other things.

If there is a seasonal rise there could be other environmental factors outside of hunting. Does the chemical composition of the water change seasonally? In the spring there is snow runoff which could dilute metal content naturally in the water, in the later part of the year it may be more concentrated as it is direct from the aquifer. Does the diet of the prey change? you already eluded to this, and we all know the eating habits change seasonally for may animals. This goes through the whole food chain. Deer and elk are rutting so they are more strained and the diet changes, animals are preparing for hibernation and their food sources may be different in the fall than in the spring when they exit hibernation. I wonder if the seasonal aspect of the entirety of the food chain compounds and affects scavengers more.

Again, not challenging this, but there may be other environmental factors. Even in birds, spring is nesting time (typically) and their day to day habits are different in the spring rather than the fall. Some predatory birds may fish more in one time of the year, and scavenge in another.

To me there are a lot of variable to place this solely on bullets or lead shot. I imagine these are some portion of the contributing factor, but at what percentage may be very hard to pinpoint.

Reasonable questions. I don't know. Those are questions that should be brought to a biologist. I believe it is worth debating how much of an impact lead bullet use has on the environment. Those who just straight up deny that there is any impact simply don't make sense.

 

[Northkill]

Anyways back to the video that Steve tagged me to. He never answered my questions about which manufacturer was the leading competitor's bullet. Or the paper clip used. I'd also like to know both loads and velocities. He stated in the video that the 199 gr HH was going at 3460 fps. I find that amazing since Weatherby's 30-338 wby mag velocity with the 195 Hammer is published at 3225 fps. The I would expect 30-338 WBY Mag to have more capacity and thus higher velocities. As I found on Hodgdon's load data comparing the 300 RUM to the 30-338 Wby mag. No need to reply Northkill. I'll respectfuly ask that you leave that between me and Steve.

Feel free to PM him if it's between you two. Probably get his attention more quickly. @RockyMtnMT

 

[RockyMtnMT]

That doesn't make sense and contradicts the narrative. Lead poisoning is understood to be cumulative and not cyclic on an annual basis.

Edited to add: thank you for the email. I am going to reach out to the biologist, who, based on the email address is not affiliated with the state.

My understanding is there is a cumulative effect but it doesn't take a bunch of times consuming pieces of lead. When that happens the effects are pretty rapid and they generally do not come back from it without medication.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is a link to the gel test thread.

Gel Test Data

Last week we had a film crew out to do a video on load development. While they were here, we also did a video of a gel test with the Hammer Hunter 199g 30cal compared to a 215g highly reputable long range hunting bullet. For the test we used two different rifles. For the short-range test we...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is the second one after the first one got pretty derailed and shut down. Everything is in there. Other than the dia of the paper clip used to check if the hollow point was open or closed. Was that a mistake? I've just been told you have to make sure the hp is open or the bullet may not work.

Gel Test Data part 2

I figured I would start a new thread to finish the first one, since it got a bit sidetracked. I got the video segments of the gel testing and the long range shooting session that I promised to add. For those that may not have seen the original thread, I copied the original post from the 1st...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[jessej]

Don't know the load for the 199s.
But I can tell you that 100 grains of RL25 under a 180 accubond produces a touch over 3500 fps in a couple of my rums. So with the less bearing surface of the HH, I say it's plausible. I'm building an 8 twist now so I can find out!

WARNING. USE CAUTION. LOAD AT OWN RISK.

Whew! Almost forgot the warning sticker

 

[Northkill]

Wow, that good ole RUM is pretty stout. That's a zippin Accubond for sure.

 

[jessej]

In a light rifle, it's punishing.

 

[59FLH]

With all these organizations supporting them there could be something to it. Even Patagonia is on board.

 

[horsefor4]

I live 30 miles from biggest concentration of condors in California they don't feed on game animals that have been shot with lead bullets they eat more dead whales then anything and yet they have a high concentrate of lead. Plus they all live in a cage that is locked and opened every morning and also fed domestic animals. In California it wasn't about the condor it was about guns and hunting.