Lead poisoning from eating game shot with lead core bullets?

[flyguy1]

Could be. One of the studies I read also claimed the presence of gilding metal in their livers(?). Uncertain of the organ. One of the problems with science itself is that while claiming to seek truth, every study/ experiment is based upon a hypothesis, which means they have a preconceived belief about the subject. Then with less than perfect morals and ethics, its possible to make the results come out in support of said hypothesis, just like statistical analysis.

Actually an honest scientific study starts off with the null hypothesis, which states that the variable introduced makes no difference one way or another. That's why studies are double blinded. At least that's how drug studies work. Those are the only ones I have supervised professionally. Shooting animals I do as a sideline

 

[Rich Coyle]

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[Ninering62]

I'm not a scientist but I have experience reading technological and scientific papers. That being said;

Your first link was a valid study result but it really didn't prove that animals taken with bullets were a potential source of health threatening lead poisoning. There are several points that I think make the study questionable.

1. The study says that all weapons used to take the animals were 7mm Mag rifles using 150gr cup and core style ammunition. Toward the end of the paper they mention that some of the meat used to feed the pigs with had bird shot in it. Just how accurate was their data when they claim that only bullets were used and yet they offhandedly mention that bird shot was in the meat.

2. Their experimental method was to take game killed and field dressed by average hunters to a game processor who then processed the meat and then they fed the contaminated meat (identified by radiographic methods) to pigs. They then tested the lead levels in the pigs for 8 days after being fed the meat.

A. They didn't verify that the meat that they turned in was the same meat that they received from the processors - could that explain why they found shotgun pellets in some of the meat that was, supposedly, all taken with 7mm Mag rifles.​

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B. They fed the pigs almost 3 pounds of meat in one 24 hour day. Even accounting for the weight differences between the pigs and the average person, that would mean that we would have to eat around 1 1/2 lbs of contaminated meat in one day. Who eats 1 1/2 lbs of meat in a day. And even if you do eat that much meat in a day, how much would actually be contaminated with lead from a kill, I suspect not as much as what those pigs were fed.​

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C. Their final conclusion was that the pigs that ate the contaminated meat showed lead blood levels of as high as 3.8 micro-gram/dL for one pig with an average of around 2.2 micro-gram/dL . The report states that the CDC says that lead blood levels in children becomes dangerous at 10 micro-gram/dL . What's more, the pigs only showed the higher levels for the about 3 days after ingesting the meat. So, in order to reach the CDC level that is dangerous for a child, the child would have to eat an average of 5 1/2 lbs of meat in a 24 hour period every three days in order to sustain a health threatening blood lead level. For an adult we would probably have to eat much more. And we would have to ensure that all of that meat was contaminated with lead. I find that pretty hard to imagine.​

I couldn't get to your second link, I don't know if it is dead or if my security software prevented me from getting to it but I couldn't check it out.

Your third link required me to pay for the report and I'm not about to do that so I couldn't read it but the summary that was available for free states that the report concludes that


That's not really anything that seems to be news to anybody that hunts game nor does it seem to conclude that eating game could cause lead poisoning.

Your fourth link doesn't really prove anything, it's just a summary of other papers and studies, it's simply a reference resource for the The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (MDNR). Quoting from other studies doesn't prove anything without including the process and conclusions.

Outstanding post man. Thanks

 

[nicholasjohn]

Me too! And of course, ear protection. Heck, I even wear gloves, eye, and ear protection when I mow or use any power tools. To me it is all about risk management.



I have the same stance. As noted, I really do not care what an individual does with the information being presented. This learner is in no position to criticize any individual's stance on the subject matter or anybody's empirical data as I do not have any personal published peer-reviewed research paper. I have nothing but respect for those that managed to have their work published (literature/article, thesis, dissertation) because it is not an easy endeavor. I have been working on my research study since June of 2017 and currently going through multi-level Academic Quality Review processes and Independent Review Board. It has been a challenging but rewarding journey and the ultimate prize is almost within reach.

After 4 hours of study time since getting off work, I think a well-deserved break is in order. Cheers to all ... be safe and God bless!

View attachment 199350

Feenix,

If your research shows that the lead-foil seal on that bottle is toxic, please don't publish the study. There is nothing better than a dram of malt whisky to wash down the day's events, and I wouldn't want anything to make me feel bad about that. I've been studying the benefits of drinking from the Glencairn glass vs. a regular scotch glass, and I prefer the one like you have in the picture.


Nick

 

[Jlusk]

2850, you're not even trying

 

[Greyfox]

Amazing to think of all the things Kalifornia worries about. No lead bullets for game you intend to consume yourself, but you can take dump on the sidewalk in San Francisco and walk away from it (note if your dog does the same and you don't pick it up it is a ticketable offense). Thank God they are striving to remove all the hard decisions for us.

Lead!?!?!? Don't forget the massive number of hypodermic needles and human waste laying around on the streets! The word "Moronic" best describes the people that run the state!!....and the people that continue to elect them.

 

[FEENIX]

Could be. One of the studies I read also claimed the presence of gilding metal in their livers(?). Uncertain of the organ. One of the problems with science itself is that while claiming to seek truth, every study/ experiment is based upon a hypothesis, which means they have a preconceived belief about the subject. Then with less than perfect morals and ethics, its possible to make the results come out in support of said hypothesis, just like statistical analysis.

The readers also have a pre-conceived belief of what the result should be instead of the intent of the research study. There are 3 research methods, quantitative (defines the variables and relationship of the variables), qualitative (defines the nature of the phenomenon to be explored), and mixed (a combination of the two). The use of hypotheses and statistical analysis is quantitative in nature. Each research method has a corresponding research design associated depending on the nature of the research under study, i.e., quantitative (experimental, quasi-experimental, correlational, etc.) and qualitative (phenomenological, narrative inquiry, case study, grounded theory, qualitative descriptive, etc.). Yes, it gets complicated and I still struggle from it.

There is "supposed" to be a set of rules and standards (ethics, unbias, objectivity, etc.) for researchers and levels of peer-reviews, publications, etc., but adherence to it is another story.

Cheers!

 

[FEENIX]

Feenix,

If your research shows that the lead-foil seal on that bottle is toxic, please don't publish the study. There is nothing better than a dram of malt whisky to wash down the day's events, and I wouldn't want anything to make me feel bad about that. I've been studying the benefits of drinking from the Glencairn glass vs. a regular scotch glass, and I prefer the one like you have in the picture.


Nick

LOL!

 

[bigngreen]

It's pretty clear that lead poisoning happens and it's far more of an issue the younger you are at exposure. I personally have never seen any technical papers that made me feel I'm in danger but to be honest I feed my kids wildgame and there has been some thought of what does it hurt to play it a little safer with them.
It also comes down to who cuts your meat, I've had meat go through and checked for metal and there was never any found that was due to the original wound, I have seen a LOT of bird shot in deer and a LOT of healed over gunshot wounding in elk, that stuff a meat cutter can't find unless in in a cyst or something that has an indicator. The killing wound is not that hard to know your in clean meat at all, copper is actually a LOT harder to get all dug out than lead. I used to run huge grinders with bone plates which I could set to take out anything from tendon and harder, I never saw lead or chunks but we would see copper come out every once in a while.
I'm confident in my cutting ability to deliver clean meat but heavy metals aren't great either, its just nice to have choices.

 

[Huntz]

I could not even give an estimate on how much meat I have consumed shot with lead shot and lead bullets..Ducks,Rabbits,Pheasants,Quail,Geese,Turkeys,Squirrel,Deer,Bear, etc.I am 76 years young and have had no physical problems from eating lead shot meat.People want to over analyze everything.Thats why their heads are spinning around with anxiety.JMHO,Huntz

 

[FEENIX]

This thread is making me hungry so I decided to defrost an antelope chops for lunch. It was harvested with 175 Matrix VLD.

ADDED:

Briefly marinated in sweet and tangy seasoned gourmet rice vinegar, seasoned with togarashi, and deep-fried. No plating necessary. YUM!

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Actually an honest scientific study starts off with the null hypothesis, which states that the variable introduced makes no difference one way or another. That's why studies are double blinded. At least that's how drug studies work. Those are the only ones I have supervised professionally. Shooting animals I do as a sideline

Unfortunately it's borderline impossible to double blind a lot of field research.
I know in my line I perform a lot of experiments on various proteins and expression levels and do my best to stay blinded when possible but become unblinded often. It's the nature of the game and simply do my best to have zero emotional attachment to anything. Some are better than others, this is why bodies of work over time and with multiple peer reviews are vital.

 

[bigngreen]

One thing to notice is the vast majority of the metal found in the packages that are scanned are in burger packages, it's very hard to get that into burger when the bullet goes through the sides because as a meat cutter your not wasting time on a pound of rib meat, you knock out a large chunk and roll on, a shoulder shot or spine shot your slowing down and trying to make sure you get meat instead of just throwing the whole shoulder in the can.

 

[tony d willIiams]

Back in '74 while assisting the wounded man a jerk placed a 22 lR round at 2k fps into my head from less than 6 feet of distance. The accelerated lead pellet did not impact, (that's a pun folks), and shorten my life. The pieces were left inside as it seems the surgery would have probably parallized or killed me, 98% chance the docs said.
As per lead poisoning, I do not think I have gone crazy or have organ failure. Too early now, but a single malt is looking good for later on.
Depending on the state I am in will determine what I use when I shoot my food. Some states prefer to own and rule their citizens.
Yes, I do read studies, I compare them and gain information.

But I will not be living my life in terror because of what they say.
I still enjoy milk, bananas, wheat, and meat, even though studies in the past have 'proven' they will cause harm and an early death.