Is There a Better Cartridge Than 308 WIN?

[jessej]

Shooting light bullets in a 300 RUM is a waste. Right now the wind is blowing 15-20 mph here. I just took a shot with one of my RUMs (not my most accurate rifle). Shoots 200 ABs at 3150. I held 3 MOA on my 620 yard gong and missed left (wind was from my right) by about 1 MOA (I video every shot). Even though it would be a faster, a 150 gr bullet would have drifted even more.

About 15 min later I took out my .338 Edge (300 Bergers at 2880). I held 2.5 MOA for wind and hit my 3" square in the middle of the 10x12 gong.

That said, on my annual hunt in MN I always use a short barreled .308 - I certainly am not going to shoot a deer there past 200 yards (last November the range was about 70, and that is longer than 90% of my shots there).

My 124 HH drifts 10" more than your 200ab at 600 yards with a 18 mph full value wind.

My 165 grain accubond is practically the same as your 200 in drift.

My 215 berger is 10" less drift than your 200.

Waste?

 

[mrjashu]

Because it's a smaller bore diameter. "Need" is a funny word…but all things being equal, from equal length barrels with equal capacity cases the one with the larger diameter bullet is more efficient. Generates more power. And wouldn't require as long a barrel to realize it's full potential becuase the total cubic volume for powder to burn and gas to expand is is much greater.

Extreme example but think 257 wby vs 458 win mag. Both based on a 30-06 length h&h case. Which one is more efficient as in powerful per grain of powder burned? Which one do you think would really benefit from a 26+ inch barrel more than the other?

Following this logic further wouldn't a 338 Federal be more "efficient" with a short barrel than a 308?

 

[30378wbymag]

Mopeds go farther on less gas.

Farther than WHAT????

 

[jessej]

Ahhh, Long Range Moped.....

Did somebody say creedmoor?

 

[Calvin45]

Following this logic further wouldn't a 338 Federal be more "efficient" with a short barrel than a 308?

Yep

 

[Rosebud]

Rosebud! Dear Sir, I know better than to BS a BSer, so I tell you with the utmost honesty, that my question was not disingenuous. I have a problem where sometimes I come upon the notion that I know everything there is, only to be humbled on a great many occasion, and usually by rudimentary evidence, that I still have much to learn!

It also appears, and with the famous line uttered by Doc Holiday played by Val Kilmner in the movie, "Tombstone" that "My hypocrisy knows no bounds" as upon reflection of my above correspondence, I see that I was indeed attempting to BS a BSer!

I'm in a rather terrible predicament at the moment deciding how to proceed on my next build which I think calls for a 20-22" barrel. I thought by default the 308 Winchestershire, but I am a newer fan of the 7mm-08. So much so I am a 7mm-08 AI reamer on order. There is a 4 month wait for that reamer, however.

I came to like the 7-08 due to a few aspects, but a big one was the fact the brass can be easily converted for it from 308 Winchestershire brass. It was mentioned in the thread the 358 Winchestershire, and I discovered the same brass formation ability with that cartridge! This spark of thought was well worth the sacrifice of my reputation to ask such a simple question about 20" barrels and the 308 Winchestershire!

Good day, Sir Rosebud.

I know who Kamala,s speech writer is now! In all seriousness! 7-08 is the best! AI will make it better!

 

[gohring3006]

Wow.. With the 215 Bergers I am only getting 2840 at the muzzle with my 28 inch Krieger in 30-06 with 59.5 grains of N560. Same velocity with 54 grains of RL17. Had confirmed drops from 300 to 1200. 9.6 mils at 1200. Of course this is just shooting center chest on steel plates eSilhouette, and cold bore headshots at 600. I am still getting used to the 215s in the wind.

Impressive if you can run the 215 close to 3K. All four of my 300WMs precision node runs around 3025. And I am happy with that. 30 Nosler around 3150.

Have fun...

I'm running the same numbers with RL17 (30-06) with a hex coated 215 in Winchester brass, oddly enough I couldn't get to 2800 with lapua brass, but the SD is better. I'm running 24" barrel. I haven't shot it in years, but I thing it's right around 2775ish fps. I thinks it less than 8 mils to 1000, and hammers. It's a lot of fun, I should build a heavy barrel 30-06 custom.
Maybe AI it.

 

[DoneNOut]

I know who Kamala,s speech writer is now! In all seriousness! 7-08 is the best! AI will make it better!

Geesh, bro...that's heavy!

 

[LRNut]

My 124 HH drifts 10" more than your 200ab at 600 yards with a 18 mph full value wind.

My 165 grain accubond is practically the same as your 200 in drift.

My 215 berger is 10" less drift than your 200.

Waste?

Yes, waste. You proved what I am saying - why shoot a 124 HH when you get 20" less drift with a 215 Berger? I know I sound like a broken record, but my observations are not generated by ballistic apps - I shoot every day and long ago stopped using light, low BC bullets in big cases. Every bit of wind drift matters.

FWIW, I use 220 ELDXs and 225 ELDMs in my other two RUMs - this one mentioned today seems to like 200 ABs better than Bergers or Hornadys.

 

[xsn10s]

Yes, waste. You proved what I am saying - why shoot a 124 HH when you get 20" less drift with a 215 Berger? I know I sound like a broken record, but my observations are not generated by ballistic apps - I shoot every day and long ago stopped using light, low BC bullets in big cases. Every bit of wind drift matters.

FWIW, I use 220 ELDXs and 225 ELDMs in my other two RUMs - this one mentioned today seems to like 200 ABs better than Bergers or Hornadys.

I think along these lines. I can range targets/ game easily. But wind can vary between the shooter and the target. So higher BC is what I want to cut down on the wind drift.

 

[Calvin45]

Yes, waste. You proved what I am saying - why shoot a 124 HH when you get 20" less drift with a 215 Berger? I know I sound like a broken record, but my observations are not generated by ballistic apps - I shoot every day and long ago stopped using light, low BC bullets in big cases. Every bit of wind drift matters.

FWIW, I use 220 ELDXs and 225 ELDMs in my other two RUMs - this one mentioned today seems to like 200 ABs better than Bergers or Hornadys.

Both have their place. Light monometals going at warp speed within ordinary hunting distances have some merits that frangible high bc heavy pills do not. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they just hit different.

Over 400 yards I'll take the high bc.

I have loads worked up for 300 win mag with a 225 eld m at 2800 and a 120 Barnes tacTx at 4000. Both are very useful when understood and applied where they shine. There's nothing "why bother" about hypervelocity. It's not just about wind drift or point blank range, it's about terminal performance.

 

[bamban]

Yep

I spun up a 338 Federal M1A barrel for a friend from Louisiana when spent a couple days in town. He is launching smallish 180s in the 30-06 territory velocity of similar weight projectiles.

 

[LRNut]

Both have their place. Light monometals going at warp speed within ordinary hunting distances have some merits that frangible high bc heavy pills do not. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they just hit different.

Over 400 yards I'll take the high bc.

I have loads worked up for 300 win mag with a 225 eld m at 2800 and a 120 Barnes tacTx at 4000. Both are very useful when understood and applied where they shine. There's nothing "why bother" about hypervelocity. It's not just about wind drift or point blank range, it's about terminal performance.

For sure; I struggle with high BC bullet terminal performance - hard to get both. The deer I shot this year at 150 yards with a 220 ELDX out of a 300 RUM made a huge hole going in (he was slightly quartering away) and no exit. Sure, he dropped like a sack of potatoes, but still...

 

[Rosebud]

I

Rosebud! Dear Sir, I know better than to BS a BSer, so I tell you with the utmost honesty, that my question was not disingenuous. I have a problem where sometimes I come upon the notion that I know everything there is, only to be humbled on a great many occasion, and usually by rudimentary evidence, that I still have much to learn!

It also appears, and with the famous line uttered by Doc Holiday played by Val Kilmner in the movie, "Tombstone" that "My hypocrisy knows no bounds" as upon reflection of my above correspondence, I see that I was indeed attempting to BS a BSer!

I'm in a rather terrible predicament at the moment deciding how to proceed on my next build which I think calls for a 20-22" barrel. I thought by default the 308 Winchestershire, but I am a newer fan of the 7mm-08. So much so I am a 7mm-08 AI reamer on order. There is a 4 month wait for that reamer, however.

I came to like the 7-08 due to a few aspects, but a big one was the fact the brass can be easily converted for it from 308 Winchestershire brass. It was mentioned in the thread the 358 Winchestershire, and I discovered the same brass formation ability with that cartridge! This spark of thought was well worth the sacrifice of my reputation to ask such a simple question about 20" barrels and the 308 Winchestershire!

Good day, Sir Rosebud.

I know who Kamala,s speech writer is now!

Geesh, bro...that's heavy!

Got to hand it to you, you get people talking!