Is it time for to me to give up on my wildcat?

[VinceMule]

Chamber reamers DO NOT work for a full length die! Full length dies have to be cut with an undersize reamer(die reamer). This is an expensive lesson to learn.

 

[jedimonkey]

Have wildcats from 17 cal to 7mm, have never had any problems. Also, always start with a known
smith, some are like back yard breeders.

 

[fta0303]

Have wildcats from 17 cal to 7mm, have never had any problems. Also, always start with a known
smith, some are like back yard breeders.

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with what should be a fun project. If you're more into shooting than projecting, I don't think you can find a bettre round than the .30-06. Or, the .30-6.5 Wby RPM.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

I have been screwing around with a 30-284 since mid-2021. I've sunk so many dollars into it and still feel like something is not right. I'm getting tired of spending way too much time trouble shooting and loading instead of just quickly loading some and being able to spend more time practicing in the field.

If I had some money to throw at it, I'd just send the barreled action, reamers, brass, and sizing die to someone like Wheeler Accuracy or similar and have them troubleshoot it and do what needs to be done to make it work like I want. But I have no money.

What do you guys think? How many of you have thrown in the towel on wildcats, went to factory ammo or at least simplified your loading and became much happier with your rifles? I might be at the point of saying F it.

Does your barrel have ANY contact with the barrel? Are the action screws properly torqued? Are the mounting surfaces of scope bases secure and properly toequed as well as your rings?
These are things I would make sure are correct.
I do hope you get it figured out. It sucks to have a problem child in the gun safe.

 

[Taylorbok]

Does your barrel have ANY contact with the barrel? Are the action screws properly torqued? Are the mounting surfaces of scope bases secure and properly toequed as well as your rings?
These are things I would make sure are correct.
I do hope you get it figured out. It sucks to have a problem child in the gun safe.

did you even read any of the thread...

 

[Tac-O]

Does your barrel have ANY contact with the barrel? Are the action screws properly torqued? Are the mounting surfaces of scope bases secure and properly toequed as well as your rings?
These are things I would make sure are correct.
I do hope you get it figured out. It sucks to have a problem child in the gun safe.

All this information is in the thread. However, the barrel does shoot very accurately and is very consistently accurate. There is no weak link in my rifle system (other than me!) for accuracy.

The sole problem I've faced with it is brass sizing issues likely due to oversize chamber and die cuts.

 

[Dirtrax]

I completely understand creating something that is unique to you and checks the boxes that satisfy your ballistic goals, fits the platform you want use, and is otherwise appealing to you. So what if there are several other options that are readily available. That's not the point. This one may not be working right out of the gate but you are not far off.
Since money is currently the biggest stumbling block (and I can relate) I know what I would do and have done. Shelve the project temporarily and use the best and most practical option available right now to get up and running. If you save the project pieces you have the opportunity to see it to fruition later. You have already learned more than most and you are better off for it. If everyone who wildcatted listed their misfortunes it would be a pinned thread on this site. When you eventually succeed, and you will, I hope you give your cartridge a sexy name.

 

[Tac-O]

If everyone who wildcatted listed their misfortunes it would be a pinned thread on this site.

That is a great idea and wish there were a pinned thread for that. There'd be so much one could learn just from others' experiences.

I doubt there's too many folks interested in this one so selling the reamers would likely take quite awhile and give me time to mull it over.

 

[VinceMule]

I have let projects like this sit for a couple of years. It helps to make notes on your progress and where the problems exist. Over time, solutions may present themselves.

Using a Micrometer to measure to the 0.0001

Measure:


Chamber
length-measured with over size ogive gauge and chamber neck dia,
with the barrel off the action, use Cerro Safe, this method removes all questions

New brass
dimension at the web
dimension of the headspace of new brass and spread of the headspace over the lot#
Neck dia of new brass

Fired Brass
there is always spring back on fired brass, how much depends on the hardness of the brass of that brand, and it will vary some over the same lot # of brass

Measure:
Fired brass in three Headspace dimensions
Fire formed
Formed where the bolt starts to get difficult to open, which is a Max Length
Resized dimension where the bolt closes with ease, You can overdo it. Use brass that needs full-length sizing and work down slowly to where the bolt closes easily. If you do your job properly, you will reach a point where the bolt closes with the very slightest effort, write that number down, then another dimension where the bolt closes easily. By knowing these two numbers, you can adjust your FL sizer without using your rifle, but it is always prudent to cycle the brass for proper function.

Working with the headspace length is usually easy, the problems occur when you are trying to reduce the area in the web. Most work on the headspace length first on-die adjustments, then start working on turning the die down to reduce the web. I work on the web dimension first because the brass has to work in the chamber flawlessly for hunting, then the headspace length is what it is.

There is a lot of talk of bumping the shoulder back .002 ASSUMING that the web dimension has been reduced for proper feeding, this is very flawed thinking.

The above issues are prevalent in many PRC cases and 22/243 AI that I have read about. I have helped many of the 22/243 AI guys over the phone where they were using Lapua brass and all issues were solved by going to Winchester brass or other brass of SAAMI dimension vs European CIP dimension. Needless to say, these guys were VERY upset that they could not use Lapua brass, thinking that their rifles would not shoot well, but just the opposite ended up being true.

I'll get off my high horse for now.

 

[SSgt G Cody]

Hmmmm. Most modern wildcatters start with a fairly short, fat case, use 40 degree shoulders, medium length neck, heavy-for-caliber small bullet, loaded at speeds well above 3000 fps, in a fast-twist barrel. Then they refine the load for best speed and accuracy. They also utilize the best practices in blueprinting the action and chamber, bedding and free-floating the stock, and use a premium trigger for best accuracy. This usually produces group accuracy well under .5 MOA. How does yours compare?

 

[Tac-O]

I have let projects like this sit for a couple of years. It helps to make notes on your progress and where the problems exist. Over time, solutions may present themselves.

Using a Micrometer to measure to the 0.0001

Measure:


Chamber
length-measured with over size ogive gauge and chamber neck dia,
with the barrel off the action, use Cerro Safe, this method removes all questions

New brass
dimension at the web
dimension of the headspace of new brass and spread of the headspace over the lot#
Neck dia of new brass

Fired Brass
there is always spring back on fired brass, how much depends on the hardness of the brass of that brand, and it will vary some over the same lot # of brass

Measure:
Fired brass in three Headspace dimensions
Fire formed
Formed where the bolt starts to get difficult to open, which is a Max Length
Resized dimension where the bolt closes with ease, You can overdo it. Use brass that needs full-length sizing and work down slowly to where the bolt closes easily. If you do your job properly, you will reach a point where the bolt closes with the very slightest effort, write that number down, then another dimension where the bolt closes easily. By knowing these two numbers, you can adjust your FL sizer without using your rifle, but it is always prudent to cycle the brass for proper function.

Working with the headspace length is usually easy, the problems occur when you are trying to reduce the area in the web. Most work on the headspace length first on-die adjustments, then start working on turning the die down to reduce the web. I work on the web dimension first because the brass has to work in the chamber flawlessly for hunting, then the headspace length is what it is.

There is a lot of talk of bumping the shoulder back .002 ASSUMING that the web dimension has been reduced for proper feeding, this is very flawed thinking.

The above issues are prevalent in many PRC cases and 22/243 AI that I have read about. I have helped many of the 22/243 AI guys over the phone where they were using Lapua brass and all issues were solved by going to Winchester brass or other brass of SAAMI dimension vs European CIP dimension. Needless to say, these guys were VERY upset that they could not use Lapua brass, thinking that their rifles would not shoot well, but just the opposite ended up being true.

I'll get off my high horse for now.

I don't have a micrometer and some of the tools needed to do all those measurements.

I've verified that my calipers are within 0.0005 based on Peterson brass lot # QC data.

Peterson 284 win virgin base: 0.499
Lapua 284win virgin base: 0.4985

After firing, the base slowly grows. The 0.200 line also slowly grows.

Peterson 12x fired 0.200: 0.503+
Sized: 0.5025
Sized w Cortina expand mandrel body: 0.500

Lapua 3x fired 0.200: don't remember but sizes about the same as Peterson and forms neck donuts so it's not preferred

Headspace: don't remember virgin
Found max headspace by removing bolt ejector and extractor. Slight resistance bolt halfway down at 2.012, I think. So brass is bumped back with a target of 2.0095

The Cortina expander mandrel body would likely resolve my extraction problems for the most part, but I would probably end up killing cases early with oversizing because of the size of the chamber. I split 2 Lapua case vertically in the body when fireforming. It may not solve them completely because the chamber is so rough. I get circumferential rings all the way up the body after firing then sizing

 

[Tac-O]

Hmmmm. Most modern wildcatters start with a fairly short, fat case, use 40 degree shoulders, medium length neck, heavy-for-caliber small bullet, loaded at speeds well above 3000 fps, in a fast-twist barrel. Then they refine the load for best speed and accuracy. They also utilize the best practices in blueprinting the action and chamber, bedding and free-floating the stock, and use a premium trigger for best accuracy. This usually produces group accuracy well under .5 MOA. How does yours compare?

It's just a hunting rifle, unmodified Tikka action in factory stock. Mullerworks barrel, fully free floated.

Groups are well under 0.5moa "all day long if I do my part" when looking at 3-5 round groups. But let's be realistic. It will put 30 rounds in 1.25" at 100yd shooting off a backpack rebuilding my position every 5 rounds letting the barrel cool. That says this barrel is pretty accurate based on statistically significant testing Hornady has done, considering it's an 8.5 pound rifle shooting 185 juggernauts at ~2825.

 

[std7mag]

@Tac-O,

Even with the Ackley Improved cartridges, you will get case length growth.
While not quite as much as the standard case, it still happens.

I'm not sure where the myth of AI cases never need trimmed came from, but it's total BS!

Glad you're getting things sorted out!

 

[nksmfamjp]

Hmmmm. Most modern wildcatters start with a fairly short, fat case, use 40 degree shoulders, medium length neck, heavy-for-caliber small bullet, loaded at speeds well above 3000 fps, in a fast-twist barrel. Then they refine the load for best speed and accuracy. They also utilize the best practices in blueprinting the action and chamber, bedding and free-floating the stock, and use a premium trigger for best accuracy. This usually produces group accuracy well under .5 MOA. How does yours compare?

I doubt it. I'm not saying good precision rifle builders cannot do that reliably, but I'll bet most rely on shooters mistrusting their own skills and a few great 3shot and 5 shot groups.

A 1 MOA rifle/load will shoot a lot of 0.5moa 3 shot groups.

Remember a truly 100%1 MOA rifle/shooter/load will win F class.