Is it possible to damage or affect the accuracy of a barrel by black nitriding it?

[WYO300RUM]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

I've bead blasted two SS barreled actions and it cut the shine somewhat .
I just had a new Bartlien barrel installed and it and action cerakoted . Now you tell me. Lol . I'm not worried .

 

[skipglo]

milo-2

It's not that I have any disdain for Cerakoting....it's just that I prefer the traditional simple black matte or blued finish. One thing I've read about the Cerakoting process is that it does add thickness and can cause stickiness and binding; another reason to avoid it in my mind. And doesn't the Cerakoting process involve high heats as well???

I just got off the phone with Bartlein and they told me that I shouldn't worry about damaging their barrels with the nitriding but that it does null their warranty. Well geeezz. That's not very comforting.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to get away from a shiny SS finish.

Look at Duracoat firearms paint kits. Worth a look and can be changed over and over

 

[shortgrass]

Be sure to spend your time reading the NIC website rather than listening to some of the internet experts.

Probably my biggest grip about the interdnet gun forums these days, "I heard it from my uncle whos' friend told him what his neighbor had heard from his friend........"

 

[lowdowndirtybugger]

I spoke to a Savage designer at the Sportsman's Show in their booth. He was primarily responsible for the Savage AR- style and chassis rifles. He said they had problems until Savage discovered Thermal Technologies in Phoenix. I have had three Pelican cases of Bartlein and Brux barrels treated by them.
Danny Rosetta

Vice President, Operations

Controlled Thermal Technology

and

General Manager

TS-West

2617 West Cypress Street

Phoenix, AZ 85009-2622

Phone: 602-272-3714

Fax: 602-272-2157

E-Mail: [email protected]

Web: http://www.cttaz.comView attachment 166139

I had a Fedex driver drop a nitrocarburized barrel out of a cardboard box right in front of me. It bounced off the concrete waist high and hit the pavement a couple of more times down the sloping driveway. After I brushed the dust off the edge of the threads on ends, you couldn't tell. Left dents in the concrete however.

I've had nothing but good experiences with these guys

 

[redleg1013]

I am in the process of planning a new rifle build and would like to end up with something other than a shiny SS finish. Is there a possibility that my new barrel could be damaged or affected by the heating process?

Krieger does not recommend nitriding barrels, as the temps get into the range where they can ruin the temper of your barrel and create a dangerous situation. The details are spelled out in the FAQ on their site. I can't speak for their experience, but I would be reluctant to reheat a treated finish for fear of distortion.

You do have the option of using Tool Black, which you can get through MSC or Im sure Brownell's will have something similar.

 

[VTbluegrass]

Birdsong Black-t
I had my benelli coated 9 years ago and it still looks awesome. Very flat black doesn't really even look different until you touch it. Hunting over salt marsh and open water there is still no rust. Heck they coated the choke tubes and there is still finish hanging onto the interior.
Super thin and slick. I run this gun almost dry of lubricant and you literally clean it with a wet towel.
Haven't done the rifles just because they don't see the abuse of the shotgun but seriously considering for my 700 when I rebarrel and blast off the krylon.

 

[Opa-lopa]

In my experience w/ military barrels, nitride has zero effect on dimensions, just boosts surface hardness. The process drives nitrogen atoms into the iron lattice structure, making it stiffer for a very short depth..

 

[one crazy kid]

+1 for Dura Coat. I used the aerosol kit to coat the barreled action of a Ruger M-77 tang safety and it really turned out well. I used the Tactical Black but they also offer Dura Blue kits that are supposed to replicate the classic look of bluing.

https://www.duracoatfirearmfinishes.com/products/durablue?variant=33527890121

 

[HRM Johnny]

I spin up the AR15 barrels (donated Shilen blanks) for our TX Juniors High Power Team, I send their barrels, along with some of my friends' barrels to the Nitriding operation in Chapell Hill, TX. To date, I must have sent close to 50 barrels for the treatment. The first few ones I tested for precision before and after, did not see any measurable change.

Longevity? I sort of coerced a good friend to re-barrel his service rifle before going to Camp Perry last summer. He had 10741 rounds through the Nitrided barrel, the last 600 yard match he shot was 198-10, he was burned for an 8 on a let down. Untreated button barrels we typically pull them out at 3000-3500 round range. I am shooting a few nitrided barrels right including a M40/M24 countour 300WM in my M24XX clone. So far I have not seen any dedgradation in precision after over 500 rounds shooting MK248 Mod 0 ammo. Will report some Teslong borescope pictures in a few days.

Edit: One of the nitrided junior barrel will be pulled out shortly. It has close to 6K rounds. The shooter earned LEG points on his last match and a mid 190 at 600 yards with it, but he reported having to chase the throat for his long line ammo. His dad verified the claim, so we issued him another barrel. I will get the old barrel to see how bad the erosion is.

Cleaning after the treatment, the best method we found was to remove all flash hiders, and barrel extensions (yes, the BEs will loosen up by the treatment) and leave the barrels underwater in an old large cooler for a couple days. You can see the brownish Nitriding residue ooze out from the bores. The residue is water soluble.

bambam,
Are you saying that this process increases barrel life by approximately three times? I have no idea personally. I'm just checking to make sure I understood this correctly. Lowdowndirtybugger said, double, sometimes triple. Is that your experience?

 

[bamban]

bambam,
Are you saying that this process increases barrel life by approximately three times? I have no idea personally. I'm just checking to make sure I understood this correctly. Lowdowndirtybugger said, double, sometimes triple. Is that your experience?

The one with 10741 rounds is just one data point, I do not know if that would be the norm or the aberration. We have not pulled any of the other treated ones. There is more coming up about to be pulled at close 6K rounds that I also mentioned.

We have barrels out there right now that have as much as 6k rounds through them that are still very competitive at 600 yards.

One of mine with over 2K rounds still hammers 600 yards. Here is a screen shot of the last targets shot at 600. The eTarget was a Shotmarker. I did not shoot this, I loaned my rifle and load to a friend to shoot in the match. This is from a 20 inch service rifle with a 4.5X March scope. My buddy out X'ed the 6mm any rifle any sight winner in the agg, 63 vs 59.

Another data point worth mentioning, one of our top shooters who won the Presidents Hundred a couple of years had one of his barrels nitrided. This one he established the precision and velocity before the treatment. Post treatment, the velocity from the same load went up almost 80 FPS. He had to back down the powder charge to get it back to the node. How did the treatment affect precision? Hard to tell, he just set a range record at the Talladega 600 match last month with the barrel. The match was held at the CMP range in Alabama.

My take right now, the longevity appears to be better, how much more? The sample is still too small to have high enough confidence level to make a statement. In a couple more years we will have over 50K rounds shot through all the treated barrels.

 

[lowdowndirtybugger]

bambam,
Are you saying that this process increases barrel life by approximately three times? I have no idea personally. I'm just checking to make sure I understood this correctly. Lowdowndirtybugger said, double, sometimes triple. Is that your experience?

Just to add to that everything is subjective and the way you shoot and how hot loads are have alot to do with life.
My .243 is nearing 3x normal life

 

[Brett Bracken]

Well there definitely has been a lot of opinions expressed here which I really appreciate. First of all I need to qualify myself as some one with very limited knowledge of gunsmithing. This is just my second build ever attempted on my part. My first build (Deviant Tactical action and Bartlein barrel which Bartlein put together for me) was very successful. Since I am so paranoid about damaging my rifle I just left it unfinished because I was concerned about heat. This rifle shoots phenomenally well....1/8 MOA groups if I do everything right. I am going with the same action and barrel with my next build, just going to set it up as a more functional rifle with which I can hunt and carry. My first rifle is a bit heavy and just sets on my porch from which I shoot hogs....so far out to 834 yds. Anyway...just want to have more standard black finish on my new rifle but don't want to risk screwing anything up. I do appreciate everyones opinions and suggestions.

 

[bamban]

Just to add to that everything is subjective and the way you shoot and how hot loads are have alot to do with life.
My .243 is nearing 3x normal life

With a .243 that's awesome.

 

[HRM Johnny]

Bam am & lowdowndirtybugger,
Thank you very much for the information. I am going to have to look into nitriding.
-Johnny