Is it Me? Has anyone ever seen this?

[Toecutter]

Just a shot in the dark here, but how does the forend of the rifle in question fit in the bag compared to the one that shoots?
Could be a few compounding factors at play.

 

[LDHunter]

ULRS...Ultra Lightweight rifle syndrome.

Not enough mass to keep a stiff firing pin spring from slightly moving the entire rifle. Watch the bolt jump when you dry fire it.

Those ultra lights are made to be carried all day and shot across 300-500 yard canyons. Not 1000 yard ones.

I've been hunting and shooting with ultra light rifles for about 40 years and can certainly verify that although it may not be the problem in this case the lighter a rifle is the more it is susceptible to jumping around due to things that people the normally shoot medium to heavy weight rifles would never even imagine.

I'm voting for the problem in this situation simply being a case of the firing pin travel causing the UL rifle to "hop" around in the rest assuming the scope and mounts are known good.

I fully understand why a lot of hunters avoid light rifles. Your margin for error is exponentially increased with every few ounces you shave off the rifle.

It seems that almost anything can cause a lightweight rifle to throw patterns and not shoot tight groups and it seems that I'm always chasing accuracy out of my lightweight rifles but it's also sweet when one performs well at the range or in the woods. I think I enjoy the repeatable accuracy challenge and appreciate the light and easy handling characteristics of a truly light rifle.

 

[North Idaho Hunter]

I have several ultralight rifles that do what your describing.

The only cure for me has been loading the bipod when lying prone with a rear bag.

I have not gotten consistent results with any other technique.

 

[Aimsmall]

Parallax has ZERO effect up to 200 yards (scope manufacturers set it fir 200 yards). Your original post said these groups are from the range, so I'm assuming you are either shooting 100 or perhaps 200 yards. So forget about parallax.

I have owned a few custom ultra light weight rifles from the best gunsmiths in the industry, and none of them would shoot 3 shots within 1/2", two yes, but nothing more than that.

Two suggestions, get a sandbag fir front rest, and call fierce to see what bullet weight they use to test fire their rifles. Then buy ammo from s couple manufacturers in as close to that bullet weight and design that you can and see how they do. Fierce guarantees 1" (moa) which is not ultra accurate in today's market. Cooper, GA Precision,Surgeon, etc all guarantee 1/2" with premium ammo.

Regarding shooting technique, you are starting down the right road. Get a dummy round, chamber it (protects from firing pin over travel), put a quarter on the end of the barrel and dry fire. When you can consustentlydry fire without the quarter falling off, then you have good trigger pull.

If the factory ammo doesn't work, then you either have an ultra light weight rifle that is inherently not super accurate or you can get into reloading and not with cheap stuff. After 40 years of reloading I finally purchased a great scans (A&D $750 with auto trickler, Redding match dies ($200), case prep machine ($125), Norma or Lapua or Alpha Munitions brass, and good billets (Berger vld, hornady ELD, etc).

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

Aimsmall sorry but you are incorrect on all scopes having a 200 yard parallax setting!
almost all high end and a lot of lower end multi power scope offerings have a parallax knob which allows you to dial true parallax free.. and yes it most certainly will affect accuracy at 100 yards, if it is not set correctly you can and most definitely walk a group around the target! most can be adjusted as close as 75 or 50 yards!!

 

[19elkhunter51]

I am heavily invested in Leopold scopes. Can't afford anything better. I don't like to say this but there is a possibility that you have a defective scope. Is this scope that you are using been on another rifle? If not maybe move the scope to a known rifle that is accurate and see what happens.
In your post you did not say whether or not you are shooting reloads or factory ammunition. Factory ammunition is much better today than in years past but typically is not as accurate as reloaded ammunition. I have built many bullets that shoot sub moa with nothing more than a balance scale, trickler, standard RCBS dies and Sierra bullets. I will say that as I gathered some rifles that I wanted to build very accurate bullets for I did change to some Redding competition dies but really believe the only difference is the ability to accurately seat the bullets.
The movement in the scope is something that would need to be observed in person. I believe that with an Ultra Light rifle there are so many basics of shooting that can effect how the rifle behaves when pulling the trigger that if may take multiple sessions at the bench to figure out what, if anything, you the shooter might be doing.

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

I recently took possession of a brand new Fierce Titanium Carbon in 300WM. I topped it off with a Leopold VX-6HD 3x18. Nightforce rings and a Piccatinny rail mount. The rings and bases have been Loctited. I shoot sitting from a bench, I use a Caldwell Tack Driver for the front rest and a standard leather covered V rest for the rear. It never grouped consistently as well as it should. Some groups were good, others not. After reading here, I began dry firing it at the range. I noticed that about 9 out of 10 times at the dropping of the firing pin, the point of aim would shift. Usually to the left, but not always. Sometimes it would go up slightly. On occasion it would go right slightly. So today I set out to fix this problem, assuming it was me. I again began dry firing while adjusting my grip, varying how firmly I held the rifle, and working on natural point of aim. I worked on a smoooooth trigger pull, no flinch, and pulling the trigger STRAIGHT back. I played with how firmly my cheek was on the stock. I put my left hand on the top of the scope, on the fore end and didn't let anything touch the barrel. I tried putting the rifle on the rest, without ANYTHING touching it except my trigger finger, and at the drop of the firing pin it still happened about 9 out of 10 times! When it didn't, I couldn't figure out if I had done anything different. I tried dry firing my Blaser after this and didn't get any shift. My friend dry fired mine and he saw the same thing. Has anyone ever seen this? It's driving me crazy! Heres pictures of my targets today at 100 yards. If you look close enough, you can see my notes on the targets.
Any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you shooting factory ammo?

if so I would install a known and trusted scope and try some handloads nothing fancy just some good old berger 210's with h1000 and see what happens! if anything you just want to see consistency, also you may want to clean the crap out of it if you haven't already before you start the load work.

One more thing I noticed in the pics is they progressively get worse not all at once and not really spraying them im almost wondering if that barrel doesn't need a serious brake in regiment, I don't know what barrels they use this one might be fouling up quick, and its a simple check that you can eliminate off the list

 

[Aimsmall]

Elk hunter 338...with all due respect you are partially correct. Yes, lots of scopes adjust parallax down to less than 35 yards, however, that has virtually zero effect when shooting at 100 yards. Look up some engineering charts or talk to an engineer if you know one.

Personally I dumped Leupold 20 years ago and it was one of the best decisions I've made.

No one makes an ultra accurate ultra light weight rifle. Mountain hunters give up accuracy by reducing the rifle weight by pounds. Even going up and down thousands of feet in elevation, the lowest I will go in a rifle is 7.5 pounds and a 2 or 2.5 pound scope and I'm lugging 9-9.5 pounds, and yes my rifles will shoot less than 1/2 Moa at 1000 yards. In fact I shot a coyote this past fall at 746 yards.

 

[theosmithjr]

ULRS...Ultra Lightweight rifle syndrome.

Not enough mass to keep a stiff firing pin spring from slightly moving the entire rifle. Watch the bolt jump when you dry fire it.

Those ultra lights are made to be carried all day and shot across 300-500 yard canyons. Not 1000 yard ones.

Correct! Each rifle requires it's own finesse. Just like a woman. You have to find the SWEET SPOT then SPOT WELD to it EACH & EVERY TIME to become consistantly accurate.
Theosmithjr

 

[Randy Tidwell]

OP, I have a Hood Scope Checker mount.

It allows you to mount your scope along side a known good scope. You adjust both scopes to be pointing at the same spot on the target.

When you fire the rifle, you can see if both scopes are still POA. I have seen scopes shift when dry fired. If you can't find someone with one, I will be happy to loan you mine. Or just put a different scope it.

"Added note" The Hood Scope Checker uses Davidson style rings and bases. So you would need to put a Davidson style base on you rifle. If you would like to see what it looks like, I will be happy to post a picture of the set up tonight. Let me know.

Leupold manufactures great products, but they are not flawless.

With what you have described, that would be the first thing I would check.

I learned my lesson years ago with a Leupold BR 36X scope on a BR rifle that would shoot into the .1s (when I did my part). When I installed the scope, the rifle went to ****, could barely shoot a .250" group. Started chasing trying find out what happened. Changed bullets, loads, new brass. I was close to pulling the barrel when friend asked when the problem started, told him right after I mounted the Leup.

He asked me if I thought it could be the scope, "No way, its a Leupold!"

Told me to put the old scope back on, go back to my standard load and see what happens.

Put the Weaver 36X back on, first group was .135" group, I saved the target.

Since then, never take it for granted about anything. Look at all possibilites

Bottom line, just because it is a NEW Leupold, don't discount it out of the equation!

JMHO

 

[Randy Tidwell]

Aimsmall, I must also respectfully disagree with your statement that parallax has no effect at 100 yards. It most certainly does.

You may not easily see it on a hunting rifle, you can really see it on a BR rifle.

I have had a number of times when moving from 200 yards to 100 yards at a BR match and forgetting to adjust the parallax. Groups open up!

As a BR shooter, we are very consistent with our shooting position. If the parallax adjustment is off, it will open groups up.

 

[Aimsmall]

Aimsmall, I must also respectfully disagree with your statement that parallax has no effect at 100 yards. It most certainly does.

You may not easily see it on a hunting rifle, you can really see it on a BR rifle.

I have had a number of times when moving from 200 yards to 100 yards at a BR match and forgetting to adjust the parallax. Groups open up!

As a BR shooter, we are very consistent with our shooting position. If the parallax adjustment is off, it will open groups up.

I shoot BR as well, and parallax is NOT going to account fir a 5" variance is POI. Please look at his targets.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

Aimsmall, I agree, Parallax will not cause a 5" shift.

I just responded to the statement it does not have a effect at 100 yards.
Just picking fly S***t out of pepper.

IMHO, OP needs to check his scope before he goes any further. I would put money on it that the scope is the issue.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I'm simple when it comes to firing light weigth rifles.

I have my parallax set to the range I'm shooting.

Trigger hand only,,, with hand role to """slow""" down barrel jump,,, my small pinky is enough to do this...
I follow through with bullet to target on every shot.

My main focus is to get the rifle to line up with the target after each shot,,, that way I know my planted format is working.

It's more about setting up for the shot with follow through that works for me.

Cheers from Don