Is faster better?

[scope-eye]

I forgot to add as with any balistic calculator they take the BC number, lets say for argument sake .500 and the weight and there is a fomula to break down the velocity and energy it has at every given 100 yards. But if that BC number is altered and increased by a much higher velocity then the velocity and energy at those given 100 yards are skewed or wrong all the way down the line. I am sure if you had a chrono at they very end near that 1000 yard line the numbers would be quite higher than they original BC numbers produced. Butterbean pic of the gong is a perfect example.

Something to they effect same bullet at different velocitys.
.500 BC at 3000 FPS
.600 BC at 3500 FPS
.700 BC at 4000 FPS


Dean

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

NO, IN THE HUNTING WORLD...CONSTRUCTION IS !!! A hit in the vital area with a quality bullet will handle the problem much better than a fast piece of junk.....

 

[ButterBean]

NO, IN THE HUNTING WORLD...CONSTRUCTION IS !!! A hit in the vital area with a quality bullet will handle the problem much better than a fast piece of junk.....

Explain a piece of junk please

 

[yobuck]

I forgot to add as with any balistic calculator they take the BC number, lets say for argument sake .500 and the weight and there is a fomula to break down the velocity and energy it has at every given 100 yards. But if that BC number is altered and increased by a much higher velocity then the velocity and energy at those given 100 yards are skewed or wrong all the way down the line. I am sure if you had a chrono at they very end near that 1000 yard line the numbers would be quite higher than they original BC numbers produced. Butterbean pic of the gong is a perfect example.

Something to they effect same bullet at different velocitys.
.500 BC at 3000 FPS
.600 BC at 3500 FPS
.700 BC at 4000 FPS


Dean

The only really important thing way down the line Scopey is where did the last bullet hit?
No need for any type devices other than understanding how a scope works and what to do to put the next round on target.

 

[scope-eye]

All I was trying to do is bring some legitimacy to high velocity shooting and hunting. It's almost comical how since it is not writen in any book by some guru, it should be discounted or dismissed altogether. It's almost as if they have blinders on and could not conceve there are alternative approaches to shooting and hunting.

Dean

 

[xsn10s]

All I was trying to do is bring some legitimacy to high velocity shooting and hunting. It's almost comical how since it is not writen in any book by some guru, it should be discounted or dismissed altogether. It's almost as if they have blinders on and could not conceve there are alternative approaches to shooting and hunting.

Dean

High velocity shooting/ hunting is nothing new. Roy Weatherby based his cartridges off of that concept. He did quite well with it too.

 

[CA48]

I am still new to reloading and long range shooting. The more I learn the more I realize I have a loooooong way to go. So this might be a simple/dumb question. But is shooting at a higher fps better? I understand that the hotter you shoot the shorter your barrel life, more powder means more kick, more powder also means more $$ per shot. So excluding these why wouldn't I want to shooting 3200+?

My current build I am working on is a Sherman Short 7ss (still waiting on my action). I have a Preferred blanks barrel, purchased some berger 190's, can't find any 195 eol's, and have some h1000 that I plan to reload with.

Any and all information/ knowledge is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

Ideal bullet construction is better. Faster can be better to point until the range gets farther and the faster bullet starts to drift more and lose velocity rapidly. I like to have the best of both worlds in some of my LRH set ups. For example in my 25SST I run 90gr hammers around 3800fps out to 500 yards if the shot is further I use the 131gr Aces with a muzzle velocity of 3170fps. The lighter Bullets running faster is great for delivering a lot of shock to a whitetail. With the hammer being monolithic copper solids this ensures reliable performance at any velocity, close ranges and far. Unlike some target/match bullets being run at velocities over 3250 which may stress the copper jacket and blow up at closer distances not getting any penetration on a animal causing a slower death or tracking requiring a second shot. Your 7SS probably won't push the 190/195s fast enough to have blow ups at closer ranges. That being said the 195s have been hit or miss for hunting. If I was in your shoes I would find a long range load for the 190s, then a short range load for the 120 hammer hunters at faster speeds. Zero for the 190s then see where the 120s hit with that zero and adjust your dope from there so you know what your dope is for both bullets without changing zero. That's is unless you 120 load has a drastic horizontal change from the 190s . If so just shoot both at 100 a learn what adjustments you need to make for both zeros.

 

[ndking1126]

My recommendation is learn one variable at a time. This post originally was about speed, not which bullet is best, so that's what I'll discuss.

Ballistically, yes. Faster is better. The same bullet going faster will always fly flatter and be affected less by the wind.

Having said that, there are other practical reasons that adding velocity could be a bad idea.
1. Extra velocity could push you out of a accuracy node.
2. Extra velocity could cause impact speed to be higher than the bullet you're using is rated for (ie, it blows up or completely comes apart instead of getting acceptable penetration when it hits the animal)
3. Higher velocities increase the RPM of the bullet as it flies through the air and could cause the jacket to separate. This would be likely at extreme speed and/or a twist rate that is significantly faster than recommended for the bullet length.
4. Adding velocity could be dangerous when you are already at the upper limit of chamber pressure. Worse case scenario it can be fatal, and best case scenario it adds unnecessary stress to the equipment, shortening their lifespan.
5. Probably a few more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[ButterBean]

High velocity shooting/ hunting is nothing new. Roy Weatherby based his cartridges off of that concept. He did quite well with it too.

 

[scope-eye]

Having said that, there are other practical reasons that adding velocity could be a bad idea.
1. Extra velocity gets you out of a accuracy node.
2. Extra velocity causes impact speed to be higher than the bullet you're using is rated for (ie, it blows up or completely comes apart instead of getting acceptable penetration when it hits the animal)
3. Higher velocities increase the RPM of the bullet as it flies through the air and could cause the jacket to separate. This would be likely at extreme speed and/or a twist rate that is significantly faster than recommended for the bullet length.
4. When you are already at the upper limit of chamber pressure. Worse case scenario it can be fatal, and best case scenario it adds unnecessary stress to the equipment, shortening their lifespan.
5. Probably a few more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

1# that is not necessarily true you can have both just like any other load you have to develop it.
2# that usually happends when the jacket was on the verge of letting go from high RPM slower twist will solve that.
3# once again slower twist barrels will solve that, the right tool for the job, I have a 220 swift AI that has a 16 twist barrel
4# what do you think happens when a guy puts a supercharger on his mustang GT, yet that never stops them it can be fatal and it certainly shortens the equipments lifespan.

Dean

 

[ndking1126]

1# that is not necessarily true you can have both just like any other load you have to develop it.
2# that usually happends when the jacket was on the verge of letting go from high RPM slower twist will solve that.
3# once again slower twist barrels will solve that, the right tool for the job, I have a 220 swift AI that has a 16 twist barrel
4# what do you think happens when a guy puts a supercharger on his mustang GT, yet that never stops them it can be fatal and it certainly shortens the equipments lifespan.

Dean

This is why I said "could" - in some situations it could happen and in some it won't. I'm not saying the situations can't be overcome. I will update my wording though for clarity, thanks.

 

[xsn10s]

I am still new to reloading and long range shooting. The more I learn the more I realize I have a loooooong way to go. So this might be a simple/dumb question. But is shooting at a higher fps better? I understand that the hotter you shoot the shorter your barrel life, more powder means more kick, more powder also means more $$ per shot. So excluding these why wouldn't I want to shooting 3200+?

My current build I am working on is a Sherman Short 7ss (still waiting on my action). I have a Preferred blanks barrel, purchased some berger 190's, can't find any 195 eol's, and have some h1000 that I plan to reload with.

Any and all information/ knowledge is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

Getting back to the original topic lol. With your bullets and powder, or many loads for that matter, you find two "nodes" of accuracy. That's speaking very general terms. You could pick either node, load, or velocity that suits your needs. If you like the extra speed and it fits your needs great. If the lower node or velocity works fine then that's fine too. It really all just depends on YOUR wants/ needs.

 

[ButterBean]

@WyoRifleman

Two nodes of accuracy holds true for conventional style bullets, If you choose to use Hammers this does not apply

 

[MagnumManiac]

Been watching this thread for a while.
To the OP's original question, yes, speed matters.
I build all of my LR hunting and comp rifles with a velocity 'window' in mind for a maximum range.
Recently, after trying a 338 Edge, I discovered it still fell short of my minimum 3000fps with a 300g pill.
I am now basing all of my builds around the Rigby/Lapua/XC cases.
My own designed 338-416 Rigby Improved 45° shoulder does what I require, but the brass is lacking in strength when I use Norma brass. Hornady brass holds up, but is inconsistent in volume across the batches I have bought.
TOF matters in the wind, which is why, for me, old school cartridges that are fast for calibre are what I use in F-class, 300WM predominantly, but I also use a 264WM, 6.5x47 and a 22-250AI depending on conditions and range, the latter 2 only get used in good conditions and only up to 600. TOF at those distances aren't as critical, but the 77g pills I use in 22 cal still get moved around by the wind, even a slight breeze.
For hunting, it's the bullet you choose that is the limiting factor as far as I'm concerned for what speed and range it's going to work at, if it's above or below it's 'best' performance window, then you need to adjust for that.
Lately, after some extensive testing, I really like the low velocity performance of the Nosler ABLR, have used them in 27, 28, 30 & 33 to date at 1300 and they still expand even when only doing 1100-900fps.
I have had issues with certain Berger pills not performing at these velocities, hence why they were not performing outside their 'best' performance window.
Anyway, paper and animals are vastly different and need careful consideration when choosing pill, speed and range.

Cheers.