Irresponsible bullet manufacturers

[Darryle]

We don't have a dead horse emoji or maybe I missed it

Sole proprietor......gives away a lot of stuff for free to keep people coming to his door..even when he should charge a small fee, because time and effort away from work is lost productivity.....lost money

Corporation......realism.....know's every action costs money and if they want to stay in business and keep paying thier employee's and making money. They must face reality and sometimes that means charging people money.

 

[marksman1941]

I've had a blast reading all of y'alls responses to my rant but in my opinion the real issue is customer service I worked in the service industry for many years and my customers were my living and I did what ever it took to make them happy if they had an emergency and they called me in the middle of the night I answered and did what ever it took to fix their problem no matter what, now they paid for that service but if I could help them over the phone that didn't cost them one red cent they were my customers and I stood by my work if I tried to fix a problem and something needed tweaking I took care of if. And if any of y'all are naive enough to think these folks aren't making any money selling their products you had best think again. God bless all of y'all and God bless America

Years in customer service doesn't make you an expert on any of this. That's like someone saying "I was in the military, trust me I know how to shoot". We all know how farcical that line is.

Ever heard the anecdote about the cost of medication and why it's so expensive when it's so cheap to manufacture? Each pill only costs $1 to make, so why sell it for $10 a pill? Cause the first pill cost $2billion to make, the second and subsequent pills only cost $1 each. But that initial investment needs paid for over time, and eventually the company will be making a profit on it. No difference here. Hornady manufactures bullets that are sold at a reasonable price, by your own admission. Hornady also spent money to research and develop load data for the caliber, which they sell for a relatively paltry sum. Wanting the load data for free is no different than wanting the bullets for free; it cost them money, so they charge to recuperate that cost. Eventually the cost is recuperated and it's all profit (aside from overhead). That's literally the American dream; create good product, charge for it, reap the rewards.

I don't know how many other ways there are to state the obvious, but you're not entitled to a single thing here. If a mfg wants to distribute load data for free that's awesome. Maybe go use their bullets. But, since their bullets cost dramatically more in most cases, they're just lumping the cost of the load data in with the bullet purchase every time you buy a bullet. Hornady sells cheap bullets but charges (a tiny one time fee) for the load data associated, which is reasonable by all logic. BUT! You want the cheap bullets AND the free load data from the factory, and then want to cry that Hornady is somehow doing you dirty by not giving you free stuff. This thread is just wild, man.

 

[skipglo]

How is that irresponsible? They're providing a service that you're paying for (bullet manufacturing). Why should load data (also a service) be free? It's cool when it is, but to call out a mfg for being "irresponsible" when they won't give you stuff for free seems pretty out of line to me. Go buy a Hornady load book like the rest of us did.

X -2.......Or shoot Barnes.....if you can find them!

 

[skipglo]

This ^

Also i neither for nor against hornady in general but God bless 'em they still make some AFFORDABLE bullets for general purpose use that have largely remained AVAILABLE when everything else was gone.

Look at the price difference between hornady bullets and things like Barnes, Nosler, and Berger and yeah, for the price they're asking darn right the other guys can offer some free load data

Amen Brother.... Hornaday is about the only Honest manufacturers left. Their prices went up reasonably when most all others Doubled.....if you could get them! My shelves were almost full with Hornaday for the 2 years everyone else went virtually EXTINCT.

 

[Grey Goast]

Every bullet I reload for every rifle I own I use Hornady they have gave me the best value and to me the best bullet for any caliber. They have kept their prices low for all buyers when other companies raised there's . there are years of research in every bullet they design for performance and stability. I have worked for everything I own and so does Hornady they have earned there dues. In life it's pay as you go. Nothing is free except the salvation of the lord and gods Love. Have you used Hogden's data center put in your cartridge ,bullet weight and it will let you choose between many different powders and give you the start load and max load on your choice's?

 

[skipglo]

When you buy your next $ 100,000.00 1/2 Ton truck....be sure not to forget to ask them to throw in Rubber floor mats ....for Free! See what they say!

 

[skipglo]

Every bullet I reload for every rifle I own I use Hornady they have gave me the best value and to me the best bullet for any caliber. They have kept their prices low for all buyers when other companies raised there's . there are years of research in every bullet they design for performance and stability. I have worked for everything I own and so does Hornady they have earned there dues. In life it's pay as you go. Nothing is free except the salvation of the lord and gods Love. Have you used Hogden's data center put in your cartridge ,bullet weight and it will let you choose between many different powders and give you the start load and max load on your choice's?

Well done! I'm 100% with you!

 

[CMP70306]

Not too sure about that! I have a bunch of 195 eldm for my 300 win and wanted to load it with imr7828! The data is not there! I have the 11 th edition! LGS guy told me to look up what the factory Ballistics are and try to match it! I think I went with 74.5? At 2930! And it shot well? Another approach?

They don't have it for the 195 as it's a newer bullet so they listed newer powders. That being said pull the 190gr and 200gr data and interpolate from there.

Additionally if you are loading them to 3.6" instead of 3.34" you can cross reference the .300 PRC data then start low and work up.

 

[xsn10s]

I should be charging for my free advise lol.

 

[Calvin45]

Not too sure about that! I have a bunch of 195 eldm for my 300 win and wanted to load it with imr7828! The data is not there! I have the 11 th edition! LGS guy told me to look up what the factory Ballistics are and try to match it! I think I went with 74.5? At 2930! And it shot well? Another approach?

Hey now! Don't you know imr7828 is an outdated and useless powder!?!?
Temp sensitive, single base, made by IMR???? You don't need that boring old nonsense, don't you know that unless your running h1000, retumbo, or rl26 in a magnum you might as well just shoot a .308, and at that point you're basically just as well to throw rocks and save your money, same trajectory! send that archaic old powder to me, I'll take it off your hands free of charge, waiving my usual "disposal fee"

I love the stuff, and accurate shooter did load
Work up with the 195 tipped matchking, which is about as similar to the 195 eld m as it's possible to be, including 7828 powder.

Your charge weight sounds appropriate and roughly in keeping with their findings here, as is the velocity. Image of freely published data provided free of charge!!! .

I really have felt smug these last years watching people almost willing to sell their soul or fight to the death out of desperation for h1000, retumbo, rl26, and maybe n570 (though apparently barrel life with that one is about a dozen rounds, barrels get pricey at that pace of erosion ). Meanwhile I've been shooting 7828 and can't complain about a thing. Find it on auction from time to time too, still paying too much BUT it never goes for anything close to what h1000,retumbo,rl26, or rl-anything goes for.

Nobody seems to get too excited over 7828 anymore. It is the original magnum powder as far as I'm concerned, still the one against which I judge other slow burners, one of the best!

 

[436]

It burns my butt that if I spend my money to buy bullets from a bullet company that their answer to a data question is " well you need to spend more money and buy my data " Hornaday for example I've got some 123 amax bullets and i need some 6.5 prc data sent them a email to see about load data I even sent them a powder list and their was we'll sell it to ya that just ****es me off. Sorry for the vent and I know there are bullet companies that freely give you their data and I applaud them for doing so Barnes and Berger will amongst others

Hey, I've been at this for longer than I care to think about, one of the things I found out early was, that information is not free it's all part of the bullets, powder and so on they sell us, bottom line I'm still buying them. Good luck Cheers

 

[shaughn]

The old manuals help especially, when you find discontinued products.

You have a starting point, and a call to the tech department just to be sure that the data you want use out of that book is still reasonable, have been told to reduce max by 10 percent once, but otherwise good to go. Was on the phone for 5 minutes if memory serves.

Anything more or to ask for hard data I expect to open my wallet.

 

[Pointman]

I have been reloading for over 50 years. It was always my policy to purchase manuals from whichever bullet manufacturer I use. I appreciate that they publish the data and question why anyone would expect them to provide the data for free. Do I buy a new one every time they publish one? No, since my loads have been completed, I see no reason to buy a new one every time they publish one. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CMP70306]

Hey, I've been at this for longer than I care to think about, one of the things I found out early was, that information is not free it's all part of the bullets, powder and so on they sell us, bottom line I'm still buying them. Good luck Cheers

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Just learned Lyman has a 51st edition, have the 49th and 50th so I'll have to see about grabbing that one.