Introducing the Absolute Hammer

[PersiMan]

Does the unexpected velocity increase mean we can use a slower twist? For example, if a man said he needed an 8.5 twist for his bullets rated at 3,000 fps, that would be 4235 rpm. But, hey, if he's running 3,200 fps instead, a 9 twist would give him... 4235 rpm. I ask because it's still emotionally difficult for me to change from 162 ELD-X to 140 gn AH for elk at 500 yrds. 280AI 1:9. Would rather use the 155s.
Likewise, in 243 win 1:10, is 69 gn really enough to take deer at long range? The 80 gn HH recommends 1:9. Even 80 seems small.
Sorry if this was already covered. I'm up to page 19 of the 91 pages of this thread.

 

[NorCalRiceGuy]

Does the unexpected velocity increase mean we can use a slower twist? For example, if a man said he needed an 8.5 twist for his bullets rated at 3,000 fps, that would be 4235 rpm. But, hey, if he's running 3,200 fps instead, a 9 twist would give him... 4235 rpm. I ask because it's still emotionally difficult for me to change from 162 ELD-X to 140 gn AH for elk at 500 yrds. 280AI 1:9. Would rather use the 155s.
Likewise, in 243 win 1:10, is 69 gn really enough to take deer at long range? The 80 gn HH recommends 1:9. Even 80 seems small.
Sorry if this was already covered. I'm up to page 19 of the 91 pages of this thread.

For whatever it's worth, I shot both the 140AHs and the 155AHs in my 280AI this past fall for elk and deer. I have a Savage AXISII with a 22" 1:8" twist barrel. Both shot great. I also have a Savage 110C rebarreled to 280AI with 1:10" twist barrel and both of the loads above keyhole from it. I could only use Hammer Hunters out of it, not AHs.

 

[RH300UM]

Does the unexpected velocity increase mean we can use a slower twist? For example, if a man said he needed an 8.5 twist for his bullets rated at 3,000 fps, that would be 4235 rpm. But, hey, if he's running 3,200 fps instead, a 9 twist would give him... 4235 rpm. I ask because it's still emotionally difficult for me to change from 162 ELD-X to 140 gn AH for elk at 500 yrds. 280AI 1:9. Would rather use the 155s.
Likewise, in 243 win 1:10, is 69 gn really enough to take deer at long range? The 80 gn HH recommends 1:9. Even 80 seems small.
Sorry if this was already covered. I'm up to page 19 of the 91 pages of this thread.

The twist recommendations are for the terminal performance. Meaning that with the faster twist the projectile will penetrate in a straight line better without tumbling.
You can get them to stabilize in the air with a slower twist but things can go wonky out at further ranges depending on many factors
It's always best to follow the recommended twist rates given

 

[Bravo 4]

Does the unexpected velocity increase mean we can use a slower twist? For example, if a man said he needed an 8.5 twist for his bullets rated at 3,000 fps, that would be 4235 rpm. But, hey, if he's running 3,200 fps instead, a 9 twist would give him... 4235 rpm.

Not trying to be a smarty pants but to get your rpm of the bullet multiply velocity x 720 and then divided by twist rate. Your examples would be more like 254,000 and 256,000 rpms.

 

[PersiMan]

Ha! You're right! I had a 12 in there for inches to feet, but I didn't have a 60 for seconds to minutes. I reported rps rather than rpm.
A spreadsheet is only as good as its formulae.
I think I'll start out with 140 AH and IMR 4451.

 

[CMP70306]

So has anyone gotten to run them out at range compared to the Hammer Hunters to get a feel for the BC? I was doing the numbers for the 178gr AH vs the 181 HH and even with a 200 fps starting advantage the 178 falls 100 yards short of the 181 for the 1800 fps expansion velocity.

 

[NorCalRiceGuy]

So has anyone gotten to run them out at range compared to the Hammer Hunters to get a feel for the BC? I was doing the numbers for the 178gr AH vs the 181 HH and even with a 200 fps starting advantage the 178 falls 100 yards short of the 181 for the 1800 fps expansion velocity.

Interesting. I look forward to hearing more, especially since I'm using the 178 AH in my 300WM.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

So has anyone gotten to run them out at range compared to the Hammer Hunters to get a feel for the BC? I was doing the numbers for the 178gr AH vs the 181 HH and even with a 200 fps starting advantage the 178 falls 100 yards short of the 181 for the 1800 fps expansion velocity.

You are correct. As the caliber gets bigger the Absolutes degrade in bc compared to the Hammer Hunters. In the 30 cal they will even out with the relative Hammer Hunter around the 400-500y mark and the Hammer Hunter will out run in every way.

Best we can figure on this is as the dia of the bullet increases the surface area of the shoulder design catches more friction/drag in flight. We are thinking that moving forward into larger caliber bullets in the Absolute line they will be a Shock Hammer design. There is no reason to have a sexy looking bullet that has short range bc. We'll most likely look for the added vel of the Absolute in a dedicated normal range bullet for the bigger calibers. We are working on some custom tooling that will effect the way they shed weight that will combine nicely with the Absolute Shock Hammer design.

More testing to come.

 

[ButterBean]

You are correct. As the caliber gets bigger the Absolutes degrade in bc compared to the Hammer Hunters. In the 30 cal they will even out with the relative Hammer Hunter around the 400-500y mark and the Hammer Hunter will out run in every way.

Best we can figure on this is as the dia of the bullet increases the surface area of the shoulder design catches more friction/drag in flight. We are thinking that moving forward into larger caliber bullets in the Absolute line they will be a Shock Hammer design. There is no reason to have a sexy looking bullet that has short range bc. We'll most likely look for the added vel of the Absolute in a dedicated normal range bullet for the bigger calibers. We are working on some custom tooling that will effect the way they shed weight that will combine nicely with the Absolute Shock Hammer design.

More testing to come.

I Love This Place,

 

[jeremy.b]

You are correct. As the caliber gets bigger the Absolutes degrade in bc compared to the Hammer Hunters. In the 30 cal they will even out with the relative Hammer Hunter around the 400-500y mark and the Hammer Hunter will out run in every way.

Best we can figure on this is as the dia of the bullet increases the surface area of the shoulder design catches more friction/drag in flight. We are thinking that moving forward into larger caliber bullets in the Absolute line they will be a Shock Hammer design. There is no reason to have a sexy looking bullet that has short range bc. We'll most likely look for the added vel of the Absolute in a dedicated normal range bullet for the bigger calibers. We are working on some custom tooling that will effect the way they shed weight that will combine nicely with the Absolute Shock Hammer design.

More testing to come.

And that must explain why we haven't seen 338's show up yet!

 

[slickyboyboo]

I know there was some discussion early of the actual BC of the .284 155 gr Absolute Hammer. Did anyone ever determine the actual BC numbers? I think the last I saw it was .272-.274 G7, but several were trying to solidify that.

 

[northhunter]

I just ordered some 123AH and some 134SH for my 6.5 prc. I'm going to see which one my gun likes more and stick with that. Powders are pretty much non existent here. I did find some Staball I'm going to try for the 123's. For the 134's I was thinking of trying RL22 because I have some. Thanks for everyone's effort at developing and compiling all this data.

 

[gator378]

And that must explain why we haven't seen 338's show up yet!

But the 338 is not for good BC It is designed to stop creatures before they eat you. If it has to be stopped now the 300 Weatherby comes out with 220 grain bullets.

 

[budlight]

But the 338 is not for good BC It is designed to stop creatures before they eat you. If it has to be stopped now the 300 Weatherby comes out with 220 grain bullets.

The BC of .338 is very high.

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