So he just called and said he shot another nice buck with the 116's from the 270wsm ( his boy shot the first one) he said even the guy hunting with him commented on how the deer just dropped. If I remember correctly they're running about 3460 fps and I think it was h4350 but I'd have to look. I guess the first buck the boy shot was running fast and his shot wasn't great but it dropped the same and was very good penetration. Can't wait to get the 22 creed over there to see how they do on coyotes at longer distances.