Improving the 308 Win performance

[3chester]

I only tried one powder RL 25 on the 208 eldm it was 3150 fps...I was concentrated on the 250 ATIPS hence the 4.00 in cartridges at 2985 fps from a 26" barrel and purchased a 30" 8 twist for it but chambered it in 308 Win long action which turned out to be an excellent shooter. No further explanation consudered or needed, for those it applies to.
So you fools inject your magnum calibers in a "308 improvement" discussion...And expect me to be impressed? ...how typical, delusional, egotistical, and self serving.
Then you whine about the 6.5 guys and their insanity...when you are the same delusional boat. Few decent discussions can be had with delusional selfish minds injecting themselves, off topic, demanding mine is better, with childish ranting behavior...but you're on the wrong subject! 308 Win?
When nothing you have accomplished is special, in anyway, many before you, have already surpassed everything you will attempt to accomplish in your pathetic self centered life times. Just the facts...

The Accurate Rifle and Precision Shooting, Dealing exclusively with extreme rifle accuracy, were a couple good magazines, 20-30 years ago. Most of the shooting you're writing about was done along the lines of the articles in those great old magazines. The 1 mile Dynamite shoot with the pop can of C4 at a mile, one shot then, back to the end of the line. Anyone ever win the pot with a 308 Winchester? What did you use for an optic, back in your hay days?

 

[xsn10s]

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[3chester]

"
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Not sure who ur talking about here but, if they're telling about shooting feats, wouldn't legit questions be a normal follow-up? Anyways, good luck. If there's someone so high up the food chain, they can't respond to a question, then maybe need a gold star, so others know too.

 

[nralifer]

Your really concerned about the temperature, and you should be ... that BS alone proves everything you said is BS. It just shows it was about 85° downtown on bull elk hunting day in November...not likely. There is an altitude app for that. Would you believe...lol. You can always spot BSer.
It's wasn't a 308 ...of coarse, it wasn't! ... As I predicted. So why make a comment on a thread called "Improving the 308" with respect to the criteria provided that it must be 2000 fps and 1500 ft-lb of energy on impact, to be a viable bullet for the task.
Then you respond with data outside the criteria laid down...I was referring to the 195 gr bullet that was first stated, and supposedly used in the initial response...not the 150 gr, you're now suggesting for 3250 to 3300 fps, in the 308,.. not the magnum, and not the 195 gr. The 49.5 was the 308 original charge with the 150 gr and now its more powder and I ran the 49.5 gr load it was 2964 fps with a 150 gold dot Bartlein 9 twist 22". The Powder had erratic velocities of 33 fps difference in just 3 shots of the same weighed powder charge several times until 51.1 grains the velocity went backwards to the 50.4 gr load around 3015 fps. Your data shows a backward trend in velocity also on the last load. And I did not reach the velocities written down as I stopped when the velocity went down with a higher charge. These are not long range loads by any stretch of the imagination. You need tight velocity spreads or the vertical will miss an entire elk, with Leverevolution in my tests,... so I gave up on it. 2000MR was faster and more consistent in my tests. Everything has changed in the statements nothing appears as orginially stated, the gun, the caliber, the velocity, the charge weights, the criteria for bullet energy and velocity.
Makes for a difficult and informative discussion stearing the conversation into a train wreck of BS I laid down the facts you laid down the BS with an agenda ... the next statement would be like, "Would you believe 1250 yds with a slingshot?"
85 ° in November? ...Get Smart. Lol...the Nazi pilots use to fly the fighters to 10,000 ft in N Africa in WW 2 to freeze the American soft drinks for an ice cold drink, in the African desert heat.
You Lost all credibility...like fake news.

You are adding exactly ZERO information. Why don't you temper your insults and try and make a better bullet yourself by undertaking the risk and expense in doing so. I will no longer respond to your posts because I don't want to get in trouble with the form officials.

 

[akmtnhnt]

I never said that 1225 shot was from a 308 Win, but it may be possible. Clearly the Accubonds you showed would have failed miserably. Clearly the data runs counter to your conjectures, (6based on no real data) that copper bullets can't expand at low speed. When they are made out of the right alloy and have the proper internal design of the hollow point, the definitely do expand well and reliably. By the way, it is possible to get 3200 fps with the 150 gr bullet from a 308Win from a 24" 1:9 twist barrel using around 52-53gr LVR (see photo of test) and the photo of the JBM Ballistics calculation shows the speed and energy of that bullet under the conditions of the hunt in question. At 1225 yds under the conditions of the hunt in question even the 150 gr 308BD2 bullet still retains 997ft-lbs and 1730 fps, sufficient for expansion.
As far as your disbelief of the hunt temps, that's your problem. You weren't there and you are disputing the guy that was.

I use leverevolution for a 308 base cartridge and have it really dialed for what it'll give me. But 52gr LVR in a 308 with the 150SBD-2. Ya, right around 3200fps. But also 75kpsi. So, no, it doesn't do that safely or remotely an apple/apples comparison with anything else.

 

[xsn10s]

I use leverevolution for a 308 base cartridge and have it really dialed for what it'll give me. But 52gr LVR in a 308 with the 150SBD-2. Ya, right around 3200fps. But also 75kpsi. So, no, it doesn't do that safely or remotely an apple/apples comparison with anything else.

What equipment are you using to measure that pressure reading?

 

[xsn10s]

Delete

 

[xsn10s]

Not sure who ur talking about here but, if they're telling about shooting feats, wouldn't legit questions be a normal follow-up? Anyways, good luck. If there's someone so high up the food chain, they can't respond to a question, then maybe need a gold star, so others know too.

Key points in here:

Personal attacks and name calling serve no purpose on this forum.

and:

2) Trolling – Posting comments with the sole purpose of starting ****ing matches with members, libel persons or groups, or to disrupt the forum, will cause your stay here to be short."

Pretty easy to spot as well as the complete consistent derailment from the topic.

 

[can1010]

"
Forum Rules - Please read before posting.

1) Respect other members. Do not flame, badger, disrespect or taunt anyone on the forum. If we feel a thread is getting out of hand we will close it or delete it. A healthy debate is welcomed and encouraged. Personal attacks and name calling serve no purpose on this forum.

Don't be disrespectful to your fellow shooting enthusiasts, whether they are new shooters or seasoned veterans (we were all new once). You can, and will be banned if you continue this type of behavior.

2) Trolling – Posting comments with the sole purpose of starting ****ing matches with members, libel persons or groups, or to disrupt the forum, will cause your stay here to be short."

Len always said that this forum was his living room and to show respect. well it is about time Len starts emptying some chairs in his living room of the disrespectful members on this tread and his other treads, they are making it miserable for other members to participate.

 

[3chester]

Key points in here:



and:


Pretty easy to spot as well as the complete consistent derailment from the topic.

44-40 does seem to have some legit 308 Winchester know- how/ tales, even if a little ranting thrown in, now and then, kinda worth it. Hang in there, keep it real.

 

[akmtnhnt]

What equipment are you using to measure that pressure reading?

A lot of muzzle velocity chrono data with different volume and initial pressure charges corrected for combustion coefficient and isentropic exponent, working backwards. It might not be right at 75kpsi but it's in the ballpark. Wildly over the 60k that round is rated at.
I actually have pretty good data at those pressures with that powder and a touch higher to know what to adjust the variables to for the burn rates at those pressures to match real world results.

When I saw 52gr of LVR in a 308 I went.. wait a minute, checked my data and ya.

 

[xsn10s]

A lot of muzzle velocity chrono data with different volume and initial pressure charges corrected for combustion coefficient and isentropic exponent, working backwards. It might not be right at 75kpsi but it's in the ballpark. Wildly over the 60k that round is rated at.
I actually have pretty good data at those pressures with that powder and a touch higher to know what to adjust the variables to for the burn rates at those pressures to match real world results.

When I saw 52gr of LVR in a 308 I went.. wait a minute, checked my data and ya.

So you're not using any equipment other than a chrono to measure pressure? If so that's just a guess.

 

[akmtnhnt]

So you're not using any equipment other than a chrono to measure pressure? If so that's just a guess.

And software that models it that you can correct with measured velocity to match the results you get. It's within 1-2 thousand psi based on people using the same software and method but with the pressure trace II hooked up to it. Given enough data, which I do have with LVR and even this bullet.

 

[xsn10s]

And software that models it that you can correct with measured velocity to match the results you get. It's within 1-2 thousand psi based on people using the same software and method but with the pressure trace II hooked up to it. Given enough data, which I do have with LVR and even this bullet.

Okay then provide the software and the data on the bullet.