Improving the 308 Win performance

[3chester]

That ain't nothing to brag about...and .485 is considered low B.C. and will definitely not make a LR elk cartridge, but a good short to normal range elk cartridge, and not meet the actual criteria at 600 yds. The 338 Lapua would be considered a LR elk cartridge.
A 22" 308 will meet the criteria with certain bullets, and some 150 gr bullets have as good a BC as your 215 and can be pushed at 3100 fps. Or 200 Sierra MK 2740 fps, 3333 ft/bs at the muzzle with .715 BC it meets the velocity requirements over 2000 fps and 1850 ft/lbs at 600 yds, with a required 9 twist barrel its accurate. Wouldn't use it for LR elk, cause I don't shoot game at long range. Its for squirrel snipering, and such.
I have many 308s from 16" to 30" and hybrid cases, short actions, ARs, and long action. The 308 case has hit over 3950 ft/lb of muzzle energy with the extreme examples...like 168 gr at 3256 fps, make a 700 yd criteria elk rifle.
But its for LR squirrels, and such.

Wasn't bragging about it anyways but, sounded like you were. When out there after Elk, see way more shots under 250 yards. Guess if most your shots are nearly 600 yards 308 Winchester with a .715 BC bullet could be the your pick .

 

[nralifer]

Sierra #2610 , 215gr, SBT in 338 Federal cartridge makes way more sense for an Elk or Bear rig. Not sure why a guy would waste all that time on a 308 Winchester when hunting an Elk is the goal.Nearly 3,300 ftlb energy on tap with a 485 B.C., it's just plain and simple.

The guy in the photo below killed this Elk with a 195 gr Badlands 195 gr 308BD2 bullet at 1225 yds single DRT shot. At impact we calculated the bullet was going about 1770 fps. Anybody with a 308 Win using BD2 at a closer range where the bullet impacts with higher energy will very likely have the same result. In this thread we are not here to argue one's opinions about the most appropriate bullet for any given animal. Suffice it to say that a lot of Elk have been killed easily with 7mm Badlands BD2 bullets weighing < 150 gr including Texas heart shots with full length pass through. The reason is that the all copper construction, ductility of the material and the tipped hollow point design which allows for a petaling that also takes advantage of the twist rate of the bullet in facilitating extreme penetration with very high weight retention, all conspire to achieve a lethality that far exceeds that of lead core bullets both at close and very extended ranges.

 

[3chester]

When I compare a 215 SBT @ 2560 fps vs a BD2 150 @ 2900 fps I get 440 yards as the max distance for reliable expansion. Or at 440 yards the .338 Federal 215 gr SBT is at 1808 fps with 1560 ft/ lbs and 1.1 mils of drift for a 10 mph wind drift. The 308 win 150 BD2 is at 460 yard with a velocity of 2131 fps and 1513 ft/ lbs energy and 0.9 mils of wind drift. The .338 Federal has 3.4 mils drop @ 440 yards and the 308 Win has 2.4 mils drop also at 440 yards. With a flatter trajectory and less wind drift I'd chose the 308 Win in that comparison. Basically the same energy at 440 yards. I used jbm @ 2200 ft elevation and 65 degrees when running the comparison.

See way more Elk inside 250 yards but guess if yours are way out there, Ya better go with smaller caliber. Good Luck

 

[3chester]

The guy in the photo below killed this Elk with a 195 gr Badlands 195 gr 308BD2 bullet at 1225 yds single DRT shot. At impact we calculated the bullet was going about 1770 fps. Anybody with a 308 Win using BD2 at a closer range where the bullet impacts with higher energy will very likely have the same result. In this thread we are not here to argue one's opinions about the most appropriate bullet for any given animal. Suffice it to say that a lot of Elk have been killed easily with 7mm Badlands BD2 bullets weighing < 150 gr including Texas heart shots with full length pass through. The reason is that the all copper construction, ductility of the material and the tipped hollow point design which allows for a petaling that also takes advantage of the twist rate of the bullet in facilitating extreme penetration with very high weight retention, all conspire to achieve a lethality that far exceeds that of lead core bullets both at close and very extended ranges.

1225 yards, Wow, that's a lot further than ever look for Elk but, nice shooting.

 

[craig hicks]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

What scares the heck out of me, is that some inexperienced hunters might take this seriously. I have hunted from Baranoff to the Kalahari and a whole lot of places in between, although I love the .308 as a mid range target round (as in NBRSA Hunter Class base cartridge) I would not recommend it as an elk cartridge AT ANY DISTANCE. With all due respect, I have found it to be a poor excuse for big game hunting period. Why even consider it when there are so many great choices these days.

 

[xsn10s]

See way more Elk inside 250 yards but guess if yours are way out there, Ya better go with smaller caliber. Good Luck

I could see picking a .338 over a 308 win at those distances. But the reality is at 250 yard either would work well. My late buddy would reach for his 308 Win loaded with 165 gr Partitions for elk at 300 yards and under. Always best to take what YOU like.

 

[DoneNOut]

What scares the heck out of me, is that some inexperienced hunters might take this seriously. I have hunted from Baranoff to the Kalahari and a whole lot of places in between, although I love the .308 as a mid range target round (as in NBRSA Hunter Class base cartridge) I would not recommend it as an elk cartridge AT ANY DISTANCE. With all due respect, I have found it to be a poor excuse for big game hunting period. Why even consider it when there are so many great choices these days.

What do you use, and will you invite me on these hunts of yours to these places so I can show you how it's done with a 308 WIN?

 

[3chester]

I could see picking a .338 over a 308 win at those distances. But the reality is at 250 yard either would work well. My late buddy would reach for his 308 Win loaded with 165 gr Partitions for elk at 300 yards and under. Always best to take what YOU like.

Yep, got Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 358 Winchester, it's not a bad Elk rig either, close in yardages with 225gr Sierra's.

 

[xsn10s]

Yep, got Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 358 Winchester, it's not a bad Elk rig either, close in yardages with 225gr Sierra's.

My 45-70 Marlin would fit the bill for 200 yards or less. But I haven't used it since 1998. 1895 Century LTD III

 

[3chester]

My 45-70 Marlin would fit the bill for 200 yards or less. But I haven't used it since 1998. 1895 Century LTD III

Yep, took the Marlin 1895 with 300 gr Partitions out there, used it in dark timber, good rig too.Shots happen pretty quick, they're usually moving out, South end shots there.

 

[nralifer]

What scares the heck out of me, is that some inexperienced hunters might take this seriously. I have hunted from Baranoff to the Kalahari and a whole lot of places in between, although I love the .308 as a mid range target round (as in NBRSA Hunter Class base cartridge) I would not recommend it as an elk cartridge AT ANY DISTANCE. With all due respect, I have found it to be a poor excuse for big game hunting period. Why even consider it when there are so many great choices these days.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think the commercial and military loadings for the 308 Win with cheap lead core bullets cause the cartridge to have a mediocre reputation. I too have hunted world wide including Africa, Canada, Alaska and the US with all kinds of lead core and Barnes bullets in various calibers including 6mm, 308 magnums, and 338 magnums, and have come to realize that the 308 Win is as universal a hunting cartridge as there is. I put a lot of effort to get within 500 yds of the target, use bullets that have superb weight retention AND extreme penetration at quartering angles of impact. I would not hesitate to shoot Moose or Elk with that cartridge using the right bullet, because it is the bullet doing the work. The cartridge simply imparts the velocity, and with the right components and barrel length, generally 20-24", it is not difficult to achieve 3000+ ft-lbs of bullet energy. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it is how well it retains it's energy, how reliably it expands, how deeply it penetrates, and whether it hits and destroys vital organs, that counts.

 

[craig hicks]

What do you use, and will you invite me on these hunts of yours to these places so I can show you how it's done with a 308 WIN?

Sure I'll take you along. Might need you and your peashooter to scare ravens away from the kill.

 

[4th_point]

My favorite load is 150 gr 308BD2 from Badlands Precision, 49 gr Leverevolution, to a COAL = 2.950". It shoots 2950 fps from a 20" barrel to 1/2 MOA. Harvested criters out to 500 yds all single shot DRT.

Thanks! I bought a few pounds of LeverEvolution to try based on your results and those of others.

I can't complain about Varget in my 16" barrel but LeverEvolution seems like a considerable step up in velocity.

Are you aware of any pressure data for the .308 Win and LeverEvolution?

 

[DoneNOut]

Thanks! I bought a few pounds of LeverEvolution to try based on your results and those of others.

I can't complain about Varget in my 16" barrel but LeverEvolution seems like a considerable step up in velocity.
Are you aware of any pressure data for the .308 Win and LeverEvolution?

The reports of the use of LeverEvolution and CFE223 is certainly intriguing. Trying Lever in 243AI did not produce any favorable results. Just over pressure at velocities I obtained with traditional burn rate powders for that cartridge. But that 6mm, not .308.