Improving the 308 Win performance

[xsn10s]

No I haven't, but not exactly sure what that has to do with anything/why that would make a difference. If you work up a load and you get the same or even more velocity with the BL2 as I or anyone else gets with the AH, that's great, share the info. I have nothing against BL and if I ever end up putting a new/faster twist barrel on my 308 I'll give them a try.

Because I have. I've also worked in ammunition development.

 

[TexasPride]

Because I have. I've also worked in ammunition development.

 

[ButterBean]

Elk at 900 with a 308 is a crap shoot. Idc what load.

That's your opinion and your welcome to it but I'll have to disagree

 

[nralifer]

If I'm not mistaken the bearing surface on the 150 BD2 is even less than the Hammer. @nralifer is the expert though!

Hard to calculate the bearing surface on the Hammers. Did several tests comparing speeds at given powder charges. Not a lot of difference in speeds between the bullets. With StaBall Match at the highest charge I could get in the case Hammer had only a 33 fps advantage which was easily overcome by the large BC difference within 150 yds or so.

 

[xsn10s]

Hard to calculate the bearing surface on the Hammers. Did several tests cmparing speeds at given powder charges. Not a lot of difference in speeds between the bullets. With StaBall Match at the highest charge I could get in the case Hammer had only a 33 fps advantage which was easily overcome by the large BC difference within 150 yds or so.

It's probably more accurately done on an optical comparator. But another easy option would be to shoot both bullets in the same barrel and catch the bullets in a Super Trap berm. Then a person could see the bearing surfaces on the bullet and measure them.

 

[xsn10s]

150 BD2 in 308 shows 1/11 I believe on the website.

Probably better off with a 1-10 according to Berger's barrel twist calculator. 1-10.5" at my altitude but I'd 1-10".

 

[TexasPride]

That's your opinion and your welcome to it but I'll have to disagree

Ohh I certainly can't argue my opinion… I've never shot an elk as they don't hang out in my parts. I'm sure there are folks who could make the shot, and I'm sure there are bullets that will kill at 308 achievable speeds at 900. What I'm not sure of is that ability/speed/bullet/wind will all align with any real frequency. Just like in craps, the best odds you can get are pretty much 50/50.

 

[nralifer]

It's probably more accurately done on an optical comparator. But another easy option would be to shoot both bullets in the same barrel and catch the bullets in a Super Trap berm. Then a person could see the bearing surfaces on the bullet and measure them.

That's is true, I'm not sure the time and expense is worth it. For practical purposes the large BC differences easily make up for any small difference between bearing surfaces and the small velocity differences. Maybe with faster burning powders Hammer may have a speed advantage but that can be largely made up by using LVR with the BD 2. The real telling data is at what speed the Hammer would have to be driven to equal the bullet energy the BD2 can achieve at distance if you propel the 150 gr BD at 3100 fps.

 

[xsn10s]

That's is true, I'm not sure the time and expense is worth it. For practical purposes the large BC differences easily make up for any small difference between bearing surfaces and the small velocity differences. Maybe with faster burning powders Hammer may have a speed advantage but that can be largely made up by using LVR with the BD 2. The real telling data is at what speed the Hammer would have to be driven to equal the bullet energy the BD2 can achieve at distance if you propel the 150 gr BD at 3100 fps.

I agree that it's really not worth the effort. What matters is the performance. The external and terminal performance is all that matters. And to be honest I'm not going to take a 900 yard shot if I can avoid it. I'd rather stalk in close. But the area I hunt 600 yards might be the closest I can get. So I set my limit at 700 yards even though I practice further than that.

 

[pony doctor]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

 

[pony doctor]

Maybe you should do the math. The G1BC of the 150 gr .308 BD2 bullet is 0.515. At 3050 fps, which I get all the time from my 24" 1:9 Bartlein using a SAAMI 308 chamber loaded to 2.980" to mag feed at 5000 ft elevation which is where a lot of Elk hunting is done, at 59degreesF 50% humidity and 1 ATM corrected to that altitude the bullet at 900 yds is going over 1800 fps and has 1080 ft# energy. The bullet expands at 1700 fps impact. A 150 gr copper Etip in a 3006 per listed data in the 2021 Hodgdon Annual Manual from a 24" barrel has a max listed MV of 2947 fps. The BC of that bullet is listed at G1=0.469 (see Noslers pic below). I did not propose this thread to argue the point of whether the 308Win is better or worse than anything else. I apologize if you are getting that impression. The purpose of the thread is to stimulate discussion on what modern components can improve the performance of the 308 Win with the idea that concepts developed along similar lines could do the same for other cartridges. In my mind there are quite a few things that can be done beyond just using a higher energy powder. I would like to see what other guys have done along those lines.

 

[pony doctor]

900 yards? I have probably taken 30 or more elk, most being 25 -50 yards . My point is that elk are pretty easy to get quite close before you Shooting them just below the ear or between their eyes! In my humble opinion there should be no need to risk shooting at 900 yards!! Lots of things can go wrong at that distance snd elk can be tough to take down at such and great distance when it is quite easy to get within 100 yards max. Most of the time a properly placed 22 Magnum is all you will ever need, but that caliber is illegal for elk but they do work quite well if you aim at the right place ( between the eyes) You don't want to lose an animal because of inadequate ft pound of energy or bullet drift into a non- instant & lethal shot placement.

 

[ButterBean]

900 yards? I have probably taken 30 or more elk, most being 25 -50 yards . My point is that elk are pretty easy to get quite close before you Shooting them just below the ear or between their eyes! In my humble opinion there should be no need to risk shooting at 900 yards!! Lots of things can go wrong at that distance snd elk can be tough to take down at such and great distance when it is quite easy to get within 100 yards max. Most of the time a properly placed 22 Magnum is all you will ever need, but that caliber is illegal for elk but they do work quite well if you aim at the right place ( between the eyes) You don't want to lose an animal because of inadequate ft pound of energy or bullet drift into a non- instant & lethal shot placement.

You do know you are on The Long Range Hunting website correct?

 

[pony doctor]

You do know you are on The Long Range Hunting website correct?

Yes! Definitely! Let's be ethical and respectful towards the game we pursue and save that " long range" for steel targets. If you can't get closer than 600 yards, maybe one needs to learn how to hunt. I promise, if you can shoot Moa groups at 1000 yards or beyond, making an ethical shot at 25- 200 yards should be quite easy. Lots of things, mostly bad, can happen at long range, that's why they call it hunting, not shooting in my humble opinion.