Improving the 308 Win performance

[BillLarson]

C110 is 99.9% pure copper and much harder than high antimony lead but much more ductile than steel or brass and much less brittle than free machining copper. It petals well and our bullets are tested to have a minimum opening velocity of 1700 fps impact. The SBD2 bullets open down to 1650 fps. Moreover they penetrate way better than lead core bullets at high impact speeds so their effectiveness envelope is very broad. They are very deadly at quartering shots within 200 yds with penetrations as long as 30+ inches.

WOW......

 

[Kentuckywindage]

@nralifer
The bullet that I was using to test is a 195ELDM. I'm petty sure it's a cup and core bullet just like Berger's. But the 195 BD2 I think that is what you are specifying. Also I don't know how soft the C110 is.. I'm assuming you mean copper 110. I'll have to see what C110 is. Also have they been tested in ballistic gel as to see what the lowest velocity that they will open at?

I think some of these bullets are tested by Simple Minded Fella on YouTube along with a lot more. He runs low velocity, (sometimes 1300 and up until they perform) and high velocity, testing in gel. He has also tested some RPM effect in different twist. He is knowledgeable and what I have found to be a nice guy.

 

[nralifer]

Finally got some results for you. The barrel is 24"Bartlein 1:9 twist with a COAL =2.939" to the lands using the 175 gr BD/ bullet (G7=0.305). Jump was 0.036". Was able to get an average of 2894 fps using 49.6 gr of LVR. At 50 gr I start to see early pressure signs in the primer flattening. From the 26" Savage 1:10 twist barrel I can get 2944 fps average with 51.5 gr LVR and pressure at 52.5gr. With the 175 BD2 bullet the COAL to the lands was 3.041 and the jump was 0.135". The two barrels have different throat lengths, presumably the free bore. The difference speeds can be accounted for by the difference in barrel lengths of 2" assuming an acceleration rate of 25 ft/sec/inch.

Forgot to mention that the Brass for the testing was Lapua Palma that uses an SRP primer. I use the CCI 450 primer. The brass had 4 firings on it and had been trimmed to 2.005" after full length sizing.

 

[Damage Inc.]

Performance of the .308 increases drastically when necked down to 7mm… or 6.5mm…. or 6mm… etc.

 

[nralifer]

Performance of the .308 increases drastically when necked down to 7mm… or 6.5mm…. or 6mm… etc.

But it is no longer a 308, and bullet energy decreases proportionally.

 

[Damage Inc.]

You're correct about one thing…. it is no longer a .308.

At 400 yards…. I'll take 10% less "energy", in exchange for 35% less drift, 10% more terminal velocity, and less recoil… all day long.

I like the .308, I'm thinking a 16" suppressed sporter-weight rifle shooting 208/210s at 2450ish would be great, and kill the crap out of stuff. Kind of "improving" the .308 by using addition by subtraction.

 

[nralifer]

You're correct about one thing…. it is no longer a .308.

At 400 yards…. I'll take 10% less "energy", in exchange for 35% less drift, 10% more terminal velocity, and less recoil… all day long.

I like the .308, I'm thinking a 16" suppressed sporter-weight rifle shooting 208/210s at 2450ish would be great, and kill the crap out of stuff. Kind of "improving" the .308 by using addition by subtraction.

Great! Do it. I'll do the same thing and use the 205 gr SBD2.

 

[Wachsmann]

I think some of the heavier copper bullets definitely require a tighter twist and that tighter than 1/10. So if you go really heavy on solid copper it's something you need to think about.

 

[nralifer]

900 yards on an Elk? I'm seeing less than 550 ft/bls at 900y even if you're pushing it at 3050 fps.

I'm also sort of curious what you're saying it about it outperforming 30-06 when your standard velocities for a 150grn load are going to be 2850-3000 fps. Let alone going to a heavier bullet with the '06 like a 180grn you'll still be high 2700's starting velocity.

But all that aside. I've got two favored loads for my .308s, 168 SMKs I don't push them real fast but I've taken hundreds of hogs from 0-250 yards and a lot of deer. My new favorite, within the last three years, are 110 V-Max moving at about 2950 fps out of a short-ish barrel is doing amazing work for me at the ranges I hunt from coyotes to hogs to deer and was shockingly accurrate, don't tear up magazines, and feed well through a semi.

Sounds like your hunting is close range on soft skin animals weighing 200 lbs or less with lead core bullets. At those ranges and animals your equipment is perfectly adequate. As a result of this thread, I have not only developed loads in the 308Win that equal or surpass historic '06 loads, but also done it using much tougher more highly penetrating high BC bullets. The same bullets can be used in the '06 and with the modern high energy ball powders like SPR or possibly StaBall6.5 they should be able to be pushed faster. If the same or better components are applied to the '06 it will surpass the 308Win using improved components. One major drawback to that is the unavailability of SRP '06 brass, though. This is partially overcome by the fact that the '06 case is higher capacity and should have the edge at handling heavy for caliber bullets such as our 195 gr BD2 or 205 gr SBD2 given the appropriate twist barrel. The fact is that from a 24 and 26" barrel a 308Win with SRP primers can safely propel a 175 gr BD2 bullet 2900 fps. Does everybody with a 308Win have to do that, no. Can it be done better from an '06, I hope so. For those with a 308Win at least they know it is possible to upgrade performance if they want to.

 

[warboar21]

Has anyone shot these Bull dozer bullets out of a 300H&H? Just curious on what kind of performance they would get if you were to lean on them a bit. I know there are several loads where it matches the 300WM or surpasses what they have shown in some loading manuals.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Has anyone shot these Bull dozer bullets out of a 300H&H? Just curious on what kind of performance they would get if you were to lean on them a bit. I know there are several loads where it matches the 300WM or surpasses what they have shown in some loading manuals.

Might be better asked on this thread. Good luck. 76 pages of information here and a LOT more following over here.

Badlands Precision Bullets thread - From BC to terminal ballistics

@nralifer when using the JBM stability calculator what measurement do I use for the “plastic tip length” parameter? I use 0.100” to compensate for the fact that aluminum is denser than plastic. If we used the full length of the aluminum tip we would overestimate the stability of the bullet.

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[xsn10s]

Sounds like your hunting is close range on soft skin animals weighing 200 lbs or less with lead core bullets. At those ranges and animals your equipment is perfectly adequate. As a result of this thread, I have not only developed loads in the 308Win that equal or surpass historic '06 loads, but also done it using much tougher more highly penetrating high BC bullets. The same bullets can be used in the '06 and with the modern high energy ball powders like SPR or possibly StaBall6.5 they should be able to be pushed faster. If the same or better components are applied to the '06 it will surpass the 308Win using improved components. One major drawback to that is the unavailability of SRP '06 brass, though. This is partially overcome by the fact that the '06 case is higher capacity and should have the edge at handling heavy for caliber bullets such as our 195 gr BD2 or 205 gr SBD2 given the appropriate twist barrel. The fact is that from a 24 and 26" barrel a 308Win with SRP primers can safely propel a 175 gr BD2 bullet 2900 fps. Does everybody with a 308Win have to do that, no. Can it be done better from an '06, I hope so. For those with a 308Win at least they know it is possible to upgrade performance if they want to.

In Nosler's load data they were able to propel their 168 gr class bullets to 2900 fps using Ramshot Big Game. That was with LRP brass and non mono bullets. Something to maybe explore. I've been meaning to test out BG, but with the component shortage I've been sticking with tried and trued loads to conserve my supply.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

In Nosler's load data they were able to propel their 168 gr class bullets to 2900 fps using Ramshot Big Game. That was with LRP brass and non mono bullets. Something to maybe explore. I've been meaning to test out BG, but with the component shortage I've been sticking with tried and trued loads to conserve my supply.

This I will try if I can find the components. At this time SRP brass for 308 is almost nonexistent. Which Nosler bullet?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

This is the chart on a 168gr Berger Hybrid @2835 with CFE223 powder from a 1/10 twist stock 22 inch .308 Win.