Kentuckywindage
Well-Known Member
I found the info.
Disregard this.
Improving the 308 Win performance
- Thread starter nralifer
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Disregard this.
xsn10s
Well-Known Member
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They just list it as a class of 168 gr bullets. So as always we have to work up the load. Here's a link to their online load data. https://www.nosler.com/load-data/caliber-and-cartridge-data.html
Updat: Sorry I misunderstood your post.
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Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
There is one manufacture that I got small rifle primers from when buying loaded ammo from. It was during the brass shortage a while back mid covid time frame. I had bought a box of Black hills ammo and it was loaded ammo. It was SRP brass. I have them put away somewhere after shooting them cause I generally used LRP brass but in a pinch I have those somewhere for reloading. I just have to find them I think I also have some 6.5 Creed during that same time that were SRP.
Kentuckywindage
Well-Known Member
I load both Large and Small in 6.5cm. A question, if I may to those more experienced? Thoughts on CCI 450 primers. I used them with 6.5 Staball, 130 gr Gamechanger in Lapua SRP brass. Excellent velocity but do to health, thorough accuracy testing has been on hold. What I did see looked promising. Especially for a hunting load.
byrddog
Well-Known Member
So............... I bit. The below loads were worked up in my barrel, do your own load development. Especially since there is no published data on LVR powder in a 308. Personally, I would start lower than what the CFE 223 load data shows for 155 grain bullets off Hornady's website.
I bought 100 150 grain BD2's. I also bought 1 pound of LVR to see what I could do in my 308. I have a fairly long throated 308 on a long action 26". I don't know dimensions, I don't know how many firings on the brass, generally anneal every 3-4 firings, brass is Lapua LRP and I don't have any SRP brass. I started at 49.5 grains with the bullet seated .025" off the lands. I went up to 52.0 grains in half grain increments but did not shoot the 51, 51.5 or 52 as I started to see pressure signs at 50.5 grains. The other thing I noticed with my overall length was starting at 51 grains there was too much powder to allow the bullet to be seated at the same COAL as the other loads, they pushed out. I cleaned my barrel and loaded 3 155 grain berger vld's for foulers. These 3 went 3077 fps with an es of 8 and shot just over 1/2". I figured not bad for no load development and bullets were seated at the lands. I did notice a touch of pressure, probably due to being on the lands.
As always, these loads were worked up in my barrel, may not be safe in yours. DO YOUR OWN load work up. All groups were 3 shot groups. Before anyone says anything about only 3 shot groups, let me remind you these bullets are a buck a piece.
The 150 badlands results were:
49.5-3153 es 47
50-3174 es 12
50.5-3193 es 8- saw pressure signs
Groups were not good. Not sure if it was due to velocity or seating depth.
I went back to the drawing board and re-checked the COAL, made a small adjustment (COAL=2.937") and lowered powder charges.
47, 47.4, 47.8, 48.2, 48.8, 49.2.
The two groups that caught my attention were 47.8 @ 3023 fps with es of 14 and 1/2" group and 48.8 @ 3064 fps with ES of 18 and just under a 1/2" group. I liked the groups better at the charges from 47-48.2 so I did not pursue the higher charge any further.
I went back and loaded 20 rounds at 47.7 grains .025" off the lands. Seems like it was tougher getting a COAL to the lands than with a Berger per se. I ended up using the SAC method by removing the barrel and seating the bullet until it no longer stuck in the lands. If you are not familiar with this method, its on youtube somewhere. I went back to the range and shot 18 of the 20 rounds.
The first couple were getting a zero at 100 yards. Shot a 3 shot group at 100, bullets shot as expected right about 1/2". I ran some numbers in my kestrel for come ups to 430 yards, where my steel was, and it took only 1.5mils for 430 yard dope (@6300 ft elevation). I shot a 3 shot group at 430 yards that measured right around 3.5". I moved back to 600 yards and shot 3 more 3 shot groups and all three measured 4" or less. I have attached 2 photos, one of the 430 yard group and one of the 600 yard group. (600(2) pic is actually at 430, computer won't let me rename them without changing names on both) I ran all 18 shots over the chronograph and ended up with a velocity of 3037 fps with an es of 37. Temperatures were about 36 degrees first trip to the range and around 54 degrees on the last trip. I found while I can really pick up some speed with LVR, it did not shoot very well for me the harder I pushed it. The 47-48 grain charges produced much better groups and all were very uniform. The load window seemed smaller than other loads I have run out of this gun. I am unsure if it is the powder or the bullet but would be fairly easy to rule either out with some more testing.
I feel like I have a pretty decent load and plan on trying it out next weekend on an oryx hunt. I will post how they worked as long as I kill an oryx and use this bullet to do it.
I bought 100 150 grain BD2's. I also bought 1 pound of LVR to see what I could do in my 308. I have a fairly long throated 308 on a long action 26". I don't know dimensions, I don't know how many firings on the brass, generally anneal every 3-4 firings, brass is Lapua LRP and I don't have any SRP brass. I started at 49.5 grains with the bullet seated .025" off the lands. I went up to 52.0 grains in half grain increments but did not shoot the 51, 51.5 or 52 as I started to see pressure signs at 50.5 grains. The other thing I noticed with my overall length was starting at 51 grains there was too much powder to allow the bullet to be seated at the same COAL as the other loads, they pushed out. I cleaned my barrel and loaded 3 155 grain berger vld's for foulers. These 3 went 3077 fps with an es of 8 and shot just over 1/2". I figured not bad for no load development and bullets were seated at the lands. I did notice a touch of pressure, probably due to being on the lands.
As always, these loads were worked up in my barrel, may not be safe in yours. DO YOUR OWN load work up. All groups were 3 shot groups. Before anyone says anything about only 3 shot groups, let me remind you these bullets are a buck a piece.
The 150 badlands results were:
49.5-3153 es 47
50-3174 es 12
50.5-3193 es 8- saw pressure signs
Groups were not good. Not sure if it was due to velocity or seating depth.
I went back to the drawing board and re-checked the COAL, made a small adjustment (COAL=2.937") and lowered powder charges.
47, 47.4, 47.8, 48.2, 48.8, 49.2.
The two groups that caught my attention were 47.8 @ 3023 fps with es of 14 and 1/2" group and 48.8 @ 3064 fps with ES of 18 and just under a 1/2" group. I liked the groups better at the charges from 47-48.2 so I did not pursue the higher charge any further.
I went back and loaded 20 rounds at 47.7 grains .025" off the lands. Seems like it was tougher getting a COAL to the lands than with a Berger per se. I ended up using the SAC method by removing the barrel and seating the bullet until it no longer stuck in the lands. If you are not familiar with this method, its on youtube somewhere. I went back to the range and shot 18 of the 20 rounds.
The first couple were getting a zero at 100 yards. Shot a 3 shot group at 100, bullets shot as expected right about 1/2". I ran some numbers in my kestrel for come ups to 430 yards, where my steel was, and it took only 1.5mils for 430 yard dope (@6300 ft elevation). I shot a 3 shot group at 430 yards that measured right around 3.5". I moved back to 600 yards and shot 3 more 3 shot groups and all three measured 4" or less. I have attached 2 photos, one of the 430 yard group and one of the 600 yard group. (600(2) pic is actually at 430, computer won't let me rename them without changing names on both) I ran all 18 shots over the chronograph and ended up with a velocity of 3037 fps with an es of 37. Temperatures were about 36 degrees first trip to the range and around 54 degrees on the last trip. I found while I can really pick up some speed with LVR, it did not shoot very well for me the harder I pushed it. The 47-48 grain charges produced much better groups and all were very uniform. The load window seemed smaller than other loads I have run out of this gun. I am unsure if it is the powder or the bullet but would be fairly easy to rule either out with some more testing.
I feel like I have a pretty decent load and plan on trying it out next weekend on an oryx hunt. I will post how they worked as long as I kill an oryx and use this bullet to do it.
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Kentuckywindage
Well-Known Member
Nice info with a great break down.
Goodluck on the Oryx hunt. Hope to see photos.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
If you can get it, SRP brass is quite economical. All the recent 308 Win tests I have done has been by resizing and reloading only 10 pieces of brass a total of 5-6 times/ case at relatively high pressures with no primer enlargement. I know the pressures are elevated because the MVs are elevated, 2900 fps for a 175 gr bullet and 3150+ fps for a 150 gr bullet.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
Excellent and careful work. Congratulations. I hope you get a great trophy Oryx. This post should be used as a reference for those guys developing loads for their 308Win. Your 26" barrel and throat are probably similar to mine because I was able to get similar speeds at similar charges of LVR. My jumps and
neck tensions were probably a bit greater. That is only a minor point and probably not terribly relevant. Again, great work!
As an aside, I think ES is related to variation in brass internal volume uniformity. I tried some machined made 338 LM brass snd right off the bat I got SDs of 3.5 or less! Using a CNC lathe to make brass is quite an undertaking but it has the potential to make extremely uniform brass, much more so than the universally used drawn brass method.
byrddog
Well-Known Member
nralifer, it may be due to brass why the ES in some of those charges aren't as good. I do have better velocity spreads with this same brass with other powders. I don't have enough experience with LVR to form an opinion yet, but while it is an awesome powder for speed it may be more unstable through temp changes and that 20+ degree swing could have caused some of my velocity spreads to go up. I will continue to play with it some more with some other bullets and I feel for my goals with the 308 for hunting I am not worried about <50 fps extreme spread. I feel the benefit of velocity gain and hopefully the performance of the BD 2 I will be quite happy with my results running this load.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
I share your sentiments exactly. LVR has given me very good velocities and good accuracy as well, it may have some temp stability but it is not promoted that way by it's manufacturer. I ordered some StaBall Match powder which is made by Winchester, it is a double base ball powder like StaBall6.5 that IS promoted as temp stable but SBM it is listed as faster burning than LVR. Remains to be seen how it compares in the velocity department. Nevertheless LVR has served me well in weather as warm as 85-90F without any obvious surprises in pressure using LRP brass.
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
So I have a question for everyone. What do you think the minimum energy and velocity would you use to kill a mule deer and elk? I'll put mine out there first since I put the question out. For me I would consider the bullet and manufacture specs but really what I'm getting at is for me it's 1600fps and 1000ft/lbs for a deer or smaller animal. For an elk I think still 1600fps and 1200fp/lbs of energy. This is mainly looking at cup and core bullets. Solids it would be more velocity and I would take the manufacturer consideration into reference and try to find post/YouTube on terminal data that is viewable even if it's someone shooting a large ham at some distance that is catching the bullet. I generally search these out for both cup and core as well as solids. But I mainly shoot cup and core style bullets. But the 175's numbers 
.
.nralifer
Well-Known Member
At what altitude do you anticipate getting the Elk?So I have a question for everyone. What do you think the minimum energy and velocity would you use to kill a mule deer and elk? I'll put mine out there first since I put the question out. For me I would consider the bullet and manufacture specs but really what I'm getting at is for me it's 1600fps and 1000ft/lbs for a deer or smaller animal. For an elk I think still 1600fps and 1200fp/lbs of energy. This is mainly looking at cup and core bullets. Solids it would be more velocity and I would take the manufacturer consideration into reference and try to find post/YouTube on terminal data that is viewable even if it's someone shooting a large ham at some distance that is catching the bullet. I generally search these out for both cup and core as well as solids. But I mainly shoot cup and core style bullets. But the 175's numbers
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
If you go up in altitude then every bullet gives a better calculated result added velocity and down range energy and we can extend our distance. I just see what people think. I know the data that was shown was for a shot around 6000ft. Typical elk hunting elevation. Also I seen mule deer actually higher than the elk in some areas.
