Idaho wolf down

[mildot1960]

Leave well enough alone.
The States control the states.
The Federal government has no vested interest in the prosperity of the individual state.
Assume the citizens can guide themselves.
We the People are not serfs.

Kennibear,,,,, Maybe i did misread what you said and if so then I'm Sorry,

As for what the government in the UK were doing is nothng less than what you discribe also even that has a twist in its tail far worse than you quoted,

My intentions were not to fan the flames but to understand why and what other choices we have and certainly not about who controls the US of A,
As that only concerns its People

I read your comments as THAT you were calling me A Serf,,, Yes I Bit and threw it right back and if I were to do the same I would expect you would do likewise.

Anyway if I have misjudged you then Im sorry.

John

 

[Capt. D]

Thought about starting a new thread, but since this one was baisically highjacked from the get go, well......and by the way Mullmann03, congradulations to your uncle. He should feel very comfortable in his own skin knowing that he alone saved somewhere in the area of 20 elk in the coming year alone.

I have been in support of hunting and the eradication of the Canadian Gray Wolf in the United States as the Canadian Gray was not the wolf indigenious to the United States but was the Eastern Gray Wolf, a much smaller and somewhat less aggressive wolf with numbers approximately 7000 at the introduction of the Canadian Gray. Had the Canadian gray wolf been an aquatic specie the Invasive Species Act would have been all over them.

With that said I'll get to the point. What has been evident for some time but what most wildlife biologist/managers keep a blind eye toward and almost refuse to admit until its too late is a PREDATOR PIT.

A predator pit is defined as; when ungulate populations have been reduced for various reasons and existing key predators, like wolves, coyotes, bears, cougars, and bobcats, can drive those numbers into an abyss, perhaps prohibiting regrowth of the herd unless there is a drastic reduction in the number of predators.

The situation results from how predators affect prey numbers in two different ways.

One is the manner in which predators, especially wolves, kill far more adult prey animals than needed to survive, commonly referred to as "surplus killing, sport killing, or reflex killing". The second is the destruction of the prey age class, due to the loss of newborn young of the year.

In the classic predator pit situation, a rising number of predators results in a constant decline in prey numbers, with the average age of surviving prey animals becoming older and older with each passing year – to the point that reproductive growth becomes impossible and the prey base begins to die off from old age. And this most accurately describes the situation you folks are in today.

The elk herds in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho are dying and the entire area is well into a predator pit situation. The elk are not the only specie with diminishing numbers but the mule deer, bighorn ram and mountain goat numbers are in serious decline and the problem is wolf predation!

We here in the south also have several areas that have fallen into a predator pit. A predator pit here is usually here in the south is usually determined by fawn recruitment as coyotes don't tend toward reflex killing and will often times return to a carcass until it has nothing more to offer. I have personally presented evidence of fawn recruitment rates less than 3% to a couple of state wildlife managers only to have fallen on deaf ears and blind eyes in advocation of a predator bounty, although I don't believe that increased hunting alone will have much of an affect. Couldn't hurt though. I am also in touch with a couple of personal friends that are ranch managers and have wildlife biology degrees to try to get them to take notice.

Whether in the northern rockies, the northeast or the south there are many bombs that are ready to explode and the fuse is just getting shorter.

 

[mildot1960]

Then I wonder why the hell tree huggers started the wolf program, If the Deer stocks were down in the first place, was it just so they could film wolves killing Deer for the hell of it, I see why people here have had enough of them.

John

 

[Capt. D]

Mildot

In 1995 when 31 Canadian Gray wolves were dropped off in the predator pit formerly known as Yellowston National Park, the ungulate populations in the northern rockies were thriving and some said that the "good ole days are now". Well the good ole days are gone and in less than a quarter century one predator specie has virtually decimated many herds across the northern rockies. When the wolves were introduced the Yellowstone elk herd had an average age of 4.5 years old. Today the average age of the Yellowstone elk herd is 8.5 to 9.5 years old and repopulating by reproduction is nearly impossible. One of the most important aspects of a healthy herd is age dispersion. Once age dispersion is lost the overall herd will simply die off.

Now we decimated our own ungulate herds through market hunting all by ourselves and the herd numbers were nearly comparable to the herd numbers at the introduction of the Canadian Gray Wolf and it took 90 years to get back to where we were then.

With the population of the Eastern Gray Wolf at the time of the introduction of the Canadian Gray, it was populous enough to be taken from the endangered specie list but was held there through law suits from the many environmentalist groups that wanted the additional wolves deposited in the United States.

The information that I am spewing is easily attainable with about 1 hour research. There is O'plenty of information out there for those that wish to be informed. Those that don't wish to be informed are those that choose to call others names instead of presenting a valid arguement that is worth having an adult discussion about.

 

[mildot1960]

I dont understand why these people would want to distroy the herds of Elk and what they have not taken into account is that Elk have 1 or 2 calfs once a year where as Wolves have between 2 and 14+ Cubs per season, Did these people not see the differance and how this program would Decimate the Elk Population, I think the OP was right to shoot this animal but the blaim lies with the people who introduced them back into the parks,

john

 

[IdahoRedneck]

I dont understand why these people would want to distroy the herds of Elk and what they have not taken into account is that Elk have 1 or 2 calfs once a year where as Wolves have between 2 and 14+ Cubs per season, Did these people not see the differance and how this program would Decimate the Elk Population, I think the OP was right to shoot this animal but the blaim lies with the people who introduced them back into the parks,

john

Whatever, tell them that, fact of the matter is this, the **** greenies wanna get off the couch and go on vacation maybe out west and oooo how cool it would be to see a wolf. Thats all fine and dandy but like you they dont live here............there is no rational with these folks , they dont want to kill off the elk and the deer, they simply want to be able to come out west and see a wolf....... Its a frickin joke........ Why dont they start makin a stink about bringin the buffallo back, hell id be for that, the **** buffallo dont kill off everything else for sport.

Ya think your gonna come in here now and tell us what we already know, yeah they multiply like rabbits, yeah the big game dont, but they dont care, they simply want to be able to see a real live wild wolf, the repercussions dont cross there mind, and in fact they will search for reasons why you need the wolf to balance the circle of life or some crap like that, had one of these internet fights with a biologist in illinois over what the purpose of the wolf was, he actually tried to tell me that you need the wolf to control elk numbers because the elk put the big hurt on the aspen trees. Now ill tell you like I told him have ya ever been to Idaho, we aint hurtin for aspen trees.

Look here, the old timers killed em off for a reason............

 

[whitely]

There is nothing like a "wolf" thread to bring out the trolls. It seems like every fat soccer mom and urban dwelling hipster with skinny jeans just "loves" the idea of wolf reintroductions.

I had this conversation just a while ago:

Fat mom: What do you think about reintroduing wolves ...

Me: Its great. Now I have something else to shoot after Elk season.

Fat mom: You know, you're really an as#*ole.

 

[mildot1960]

Whatever, tell them that, fact of the matter is this, the **** greenies wanna get off the couch and go on vacation maybe out west and oooo how cool it would be to see a wolf. Thats all fine and dandy but like you they dont live here............there is no rational with these folks , they dont want to kill off the elk and the deer, they simply want to be able to come out west and see a wolf....... Its a frickin joke........ Why dont they start makin a stink about bringin the buffallo back, hell id be for that, the **** buffallo dont kill off everything else for sport.

Ya think your gonna come in here now and tell us what we already know, yeah they multiply like rabbits, yeah the big game dont, but they dont care, they simply want to be able to see a real live wild wolf, the repercussions dont cross there mind, and in fact they will search for reasons why you need the wolf to balance the circle of life or some crap like that, had one of these internet fights with a biologist in illinois over what the purpose of the wolf was, he actually tried to tell me that you need the wolf to control elk numbers because the elk put the big hurt on the aspen trees. Now ill tell you like I told him have ya ever been to Idaho, we aint hurtin for aspen trees.

Look here, the old timers killed em off for a reason............

Hunters hunt using tags and this is for only a limited season, But wolves hunt 365 days of the year So everyday in the US there is more than one Elk being killed Somewhere everyday and The Elk cant compete with that,

john

 

[one crazy kid]

Hunters hunt using tags and this is for only a limited season, But wolves hunt 365 days of the year So everyday in the US there is more than one Elk being killed Somewhere everyday and The Elk cant compete with that,

john

Well said, I think some of us misjudged you.

 

[mildot1960]

Well said, I think some of us misjudged you.

Well that was my own fault because I put trust in the people who were surposed to be well informed and they told me about 20% of the facts and what it boils down to is that they were just using Government money to create A Job for them selves and get their 15 minates of fame, Either way its Fraud.

But although they make the right sounds they never gave a thought about the knock on effect on live stock, lively hoods and how the quality of life would change for those who are dependant on Moose Elk and Deer and other wild game, Not to mention the Sporting world.

Only the Faces change but the Lies stay the same.

I saw somewhere on youtube where wolve were actually Tracking hunters and they got within 50 yds of the hunters, So it is really time to react before someone gets Hurt or worse,

John

 

[Brewer]

Reading this post makes me think of a letter I got in the mail some time back from the serria club. in it, there was a survey that asked questions like, "Do you agree with the slaughter of innocent wolves?" to which I responded "yes!" then they asked, "do you feel like these helpless creatures should be shot and wounded or even killed from airplanes and helicopters?" to which I replied, "yes! where can I find such opportunities?" So I sent it back in the self addressed stamped envelope and put 4 heavy washers in the envelope so they had to pay extra postage. I haven't heard from them since.

 

[mullmann03]

I never imagined this thread would generate the type/quantity of conversation it has. Does anyone know how the wolf derby turned out?

 

[royinidaho]

I never imagined this thread would generate the type/quantity of conversation it has. Does anyone know how the wolf derby turned out?

I believe there were 240 people signed up. All but about 20 were not participants, simply supporters. Pretty sweet.

No woofs harvested

Something like 20 yotes

 

[IdahoRedneck]

I believe there were 240 people signed up. All but about 20 were not participants, simply supporters. Pretty sweet.

No woofs harvested

Something like 20 yotes

Didnt expect to see any woofs, was just tickled pink that the whole thing got the tree huggers panties in a bunch.......also as expected.

You dont just head out and shoot a wolf real quick, as Roy and I know, them vermin are gettin harder and harder to kill the more they get shot at. I always kinda figured once a wolf season opened, it may turn into a trappers ballgame.