I’m Convinced. No Lead Bullets for Game

[memtb]

Intriguing. This needs it's own thread.

I don't know if proven, but many years ago I was told from a pretty reputable source…… that a cup & core boat-tail bullet had a higher propensity to core/jacket separation than did a flat-base cup & core bullet. memtb

 

[memtb]

And this shedding of weight equates to energy transfer and more tissue destruction. If a bullet retains 100% of it's weight other than the temporary stretch cavity it's going to do less damage. This is why you should shoot light monos and push them as fast as you can. This is exactly what I have seen shooting monos versus cup and core.

For those of you that follow the "energy dump" theory, whether a relatively shallow wound with an immediate "energy dump", or a long wound channel…..the animal absorbed the same amount of energy! Just Say'n. memtb

 

[Koda_]

And this shedding of weight equates to energy transfer and more tissue destruction. If a bullet retains 100% of it's weight other than the temporary stretch cavity it's going to do less damage. This is why you should shoot light monos and push them as fast as you can. This is exactly what I have seen shooting monos versus cup and core.

I tend to favor mono petal shedding to create more wound channels myself. Im no scientist but all these common big game calibers are plenty powerful enough energy transfer wise, some bullets pass thru, some stop on the farside regardless of bullet type. Id rather not have my bullet come apart outside of its design intent.

The idea of intentionally shooting lighter monos fast seems misleading to me, I dont think its a true need because additional velocity is a benifit for any bullet type. The reason lighter monos are shot faster is because they are simply lighter so naturally they will fly faster. I dont see why any handloader would not want more velocity with any bullet type, even cup and cores have listed minimum terminal velocities.

 

[cajun]

For those of you that follow the "energy dump" theory, whether a relatively shallow wound with an immediate "energy dump", or a long wound channel…..the animal absorbed the same amount of energy! Just Say'n. memtb

No one wants an energy dump with shallow penetration. The cup and cores I shoot routinely exit and leave a substantial would channel. When I shoot a deer in the lungs with a ballistic tip the lungs are jello. With monos I get localized tissue damage.

 

[VinceMule]

No one wants an energy dump with shallow penetration. The cup and cores I shoot routinely exit and leave a substantial would channel. When I shoot a deer in the lungs with a ballistic tip the lungs are jello. With monos I get localized tissue damage.

Yes! I agree! Mono's(TTSX) that I have shot past 450 yards on white tails had much less tissue damage than cup and core(ballistic tips, accubonds, and Interlocks).

 

[Crockett12]

No one wants an energy dump with shallow penetration. The cup and cores I shoot routinely exit and leave a substantial would channel. When I shoot a deer in the lungs with a ballistic tip the lungs are jello. With monos I get localized tissue damage.

I've shot a number of deer with a 6 mm Remington -- 87 gr Hornday varmint (cup & core) bullet but always placed the bullet through the ribs and into the lungs! I didn't have a chronograph back then but the listed velocity of my handloads was 3200/3300 fps and most of the deer were close to me when shot! Upon opening the close shot deer, the lungs were not only jello but essentially were gone and the bullet never exited! The close shot deer always dropped in their tracks and likely never heard the sound of the rifle blast! The furthest deer was about 150 yards away and it took one step after the shot and then dropped! The lungs on that deer were also pulverized!

 

[cajun]

I've shot a number of deer with a 6 mm Remington -- 87 gr Hornday varmint (cup & core) bullet but always placed the bullet through the ribs and into the lungs! I didn't have a chronograph back then but the listed velocity of my handloads was 3200/3300 fps and most of the deer were close to me when shot! Upon opening the close shot deer, the lungs were not only jello but essentially were gone and the bullet never exited! The close shot deer always dropped in their tracks and likely never heard the sound of the rifle blast! The furthest deer was about 150 yards away and it took one step after the shot and then dropped! The lungs on that deer were also pulverized!

What you describe there is one extreme. The other would be shooting monos. The middle ground is a cup and core hunting bullet. While lightly constructed varmint bullets can kill dramatically that all changes if you dont have a broad side shot you can put in the lungs. During our rut when the big boys are out you cant just wait for a perfect shot. You might have to shoot a hard quartering shot into the shoulder. Thats why I shoot the middle ground. A bullet that will have enough weight retention to kill on a less than perfect shot.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Yes! I agree! Mono's(TTSX) that I have shot past 450 yards on white tails had much less tissue damage than cup and core(ballistic tips, accubonds, and Interlocks).

I had exactly this issue with my 25-06 using Barnes TSX 100g bullets culling Fallow deer here. At 600 and beyond, the bullets just simply didn't expand fully, often one petal, other times two petals but never all four.
Filled the contract, moved on to a 6.5 (260 Rem) using Speer 120g HotCor bullets and never had a problem again.
If I were to do it again, I would again choose my 25-05 using a TTSX, weight is up in the air, but a TTSX is what I would choose.
Oh, I have never seen lead spray from a bonded bullet apart from the ABLR, have used several brands and not seen the same amount of lead in the lungs.

Cheers.

 

[Crockett12]

What you describe there is one extreme.

You're right it is one extreme! I never took a less than perfect shot because I knew where the deer would be at whatever time I was hunting! I lived in the area I hunted and I could stalk a spot when I knew there was a good chance a deer would be there! There were times I didn't have the perfect shot and I didn't take it because I knew the limitation of my bullet! However, my experience also showed me what such a bullet could do when used correctly! No mono bullet could do what that 87 gr could do -- used the way I used it!

 

[Victor3Ranger1]

Oh man I need to go get some more popcorn

 

[fseaman.js]

Oh man I need to go get some more popcorn

This happens every time there is any post about going unleaded.

Most y'all ain't old enough but it was the same deal with gasoline.

 

[Victor3Ranger1]

This happens every time there is any post about going unleaded.

Most y'all ain't old enough but it was the same deal with gasoline.

This happens every time there is any post about going unleaded.

Most y'all ain't old enough but it was the same deal with gasoline.

I sure remember when they took lead out of gasoline

And remember being around a mountain of lead paint.
I'm still around even after me and my brother playing with the cool bouncy silver balls that came out of thermometers, took me a few years of schoolin to understand that mercury disappears in your skin when you hold it
Still here

 

[fseaman.js]

And remember being around a mountain of lead paint.
I'm still around even after me and my brother playing with the cool bouncy silver balls that came out of thermometers, took me a few years of schoolin to understand that mercury disappears in your skin when you hold it
Still here

And this explains why these threads never stop. Everyone has to rebut something not said, not implied but they have to get it I ate xyz and I'm still here.

 

[bfarms]

Maybe you need to read the earlier article I posted and do a simple search for several more.

You are already feeding yourself and your kids toxins, bacteria, micro plastics, etc, etc, so unless you are growing, raising and harvesting everything yourself, you have little to no idea what you are eating, and in many cases, where it actually came from.

Just read the labels on several canned, boxed, jarred, etc food items in your house right now. And don't get me started on all the toxic chemicals in your home and daily life. Then, there are the usual illnesses, deaths and recalls due to listeria, salmonella, E-coli, etc, etc.

Point being, some people will strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Yes! If people only knew what was around them everyday, And the garbage in our food! You are 100 percent correct.