Hunting with the Lapua Scenar bullet (muzzle velocity above 3000fps)

[WildRose]

Peregrine from my experience is a glorified solid (emphasis on "my experience") with brilliant penetrative qualities but very narrow wounding and slow kills. I had two "failures to expand" on gemsbuck and the wound channel was disappointing leading to quite a long walk after well-placed shots that with any expanding projectile would have been tremendously fast-killing. I have the same to say about Barnes. I'm not a fan of monolythic projectiles and prefer a bonded lead bullet. (See attached expansion failure pic on Peregrine bullet travelling at 2800fps and impact on target at 110y).

The Scenar is also not my choice of hunting bullet but it's target performance is phenomenal with my 243's 22" standard barrel with 1:10" twist (see attached pic on 4 shot group at 120y).

With the .243, for varminting, Lapua Scenar all day and any day. For hunting South African antelope (impala, springbuck, hartebeest and blesuck), I tend to shift towards 100gr Hornady Interlock bullets which may not be the best weight retainers, but expand well and maintain their course whilst travelling through soft tissue.

I typically use Sierra Gamekings on most game here... The bullet expands well and retains good weight on even the toughest thick-skinned antelope/plains game such as bluewildebeest, gemsbuck, waterbuck, eland and zebra. It also has a good ballistic coefficient with its form taken into account. I have mostly good things to say about Sierra, on target and on game impact. And the price is flattering. (See attached Sierra Gameking mushroom after 180gr at 2600fps smashed into a bluewildebeest shoulder - beautiful big wildebeest too).

That is a beautiful BW. Have you shot any of the Hornady Interbond? That's my all time favorite bullet for deer and Pronghorn (our American "Antelope").

Where in the RSA are you? I have a pile of friends around Pretoria and Witbank. You may well have even seen my dogs there. One of my best friends in the whole world lives in Witbank and runs Classic Arms, he also breeds my line of dogs there.

 

[M Rosslee]

Agreed! No pass throughs for me yet on Bergers but the internal organs were all souped up. The 175 Matrix VLD had a less than 3" of exit wound.

Same observations with Lapua Scenar.

I stole this pic from somewhere but it sets out the internal composition and bullet structure.

Although it's terminal performance is tremendous, it's weight retention was rather poor (Well, duh, it's a hollow point projectile). How is the weight retention on Bergers or do they also tend to fragment after some tissue and bone resistance?

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[M Rosslee]

That is not what I like to see in a hunting bullet but I'll take it all day long shooting coyotes.

I got similar performance out of Nosler Ballistic tips which is why I quit shooting them.

I made an absolutely perfect heart/lung shot on a very large boar hog with the 140gr BT 7mm Rem and he ran over 500yds before dying and it was a miracle we were able to find him with the dogs because there was absolutely no visible blood trail.

I have noted a few gentlemen here having similar issues with the Barnes projectiles (please don't hang me for saying that) but they often fail to expand (see attached pic)... Expansion on heavy thin- skinned African game (BWB, zebra, eland, gemsbuck etc) is important due to their receptive resilience and energy absorption capabilities. I'm sure you've seen that here... A BWB bull sucks up bullet energy and converts it into stamina and speed

Boar hogs are just as tough as our warthog and bush pig here! I know the frustration of a bullet not doing what it needs to when shooting the big pigs... I have had a few bullets change travel direction in large warthog bodies after initial bone impact instead of punching through....

 

[M Rosslee]

That is a beautiful BW. Have you shot any of the Hornady Interbond? That's my all time favorite bullet for deer and Pronghorn (our American "Antelope").

Where in the RSA are you? I have a pile of friends around Pretoria and Witbank. You may well have even seen my dogs there. One of my best friends in the whole world lives in Witbank and runs Classic Arms, he also breeds my line of dogs there.

Thank you. Funnily enough, my 30-06 Springfield with a 22" standard barrel and 1:10" twist smashed a 180gr Sierra Gameking into the thick stuff on the BWB and expanded perfectly, retaining around 156gr in projectile mass... It maintained its course and destroyed the heart and lungs ... The MV was 2600fps and impact distance was about 150m... The BWB ran about 50m without dropping a droplet of blood, with a broken shoulder and destroyed internal organs... I thought my shot had not hit home.. The farmer was skeptical too (considering the nature of the BWB). (see attached pic of vital damage and consider an animal running after that - hence caution when shooting at these blokes at a distance)

I have shot Hornady Interbond in 338 Winchester Magnum! Fantastic bullet, Hornady is just not well represented in SA due to the high USA consumption (we have a few bullets come in and our shooting populace absorbs them). I shot a nice blesbuck ram at around 250m (in under the tail) and the shot stopped just under the skin in the chest (Texas hear shot) with 95% bullet retention. That's a 225gr projectile with a MV of 2810fps out of a 24" 1:10twist barrel. (see attached pic and consider landscape)

I shot a few gemsbuck with Hornady Interbonds but didn't recover any projectiles which says a lot about its retention and terminal ballistic characteristics... Fantastic wound channels producing quick kills on tough game (with the right caliber).

Ah! Classic Arms in Witbank. It's a bit far from me but everybody here knows them I don't know the owner personally but I check his rifle prices in our hunting magazines.

I'm in Johannesburg and am a recreational hunter, hunting about 4-6 times a year in different regions in South Africa. We have our open plains and desert hunts and our wooded areas (bushveld) all boasting a variety of different game species (each presenting their own caliber and hunting style adjustments).

That's awesome! Good to know we've got some American canine blood here too... Because you Yank gentlemen sure can build a rifle.... I love my Remington Mod 700. gun)

 

[M Rosslee]

The Scenar is defiitely a flying bomb at that velocity which is exactly what you want on varmints unless of course you plan to take hides. I would not use them on game however as they are too frangible to suit me.

I have tried them in several different calibers but was less than satisfied with the accuracy and moved on.

Fortunately there are lots of choices available.

Living in the RSA though I would think the Peregrine Bullets would be a better and certainly cheaper alternative?

Low and behold, another Peregrine bullet failure 30-06 on the shoulder at 2600fps... Not cool... See attached pic.

 

[FEENIX]

Same observations with Lapua Scenar.

I stole this pic from somewhere but it sets out the internal composition and bullet structure.

Although it's terminal performance is tremendous, it's weight retention was rather poor (Well, duh, it's a hollow point projectile). How is the weight retention on Bergers or do they also tend to fragment after some tissue and bone resistance?

gun)

Thanks for sharing the pix. In my own personal and limited experience, I have not recovered any Berger bullet yet (but frankly though, I did not look that hard but will do next time); suspects it fragmented into less visible pieces.

On the other hand, below was taken with 175 Matrix VLD (similar design) at 2993 FPS MV at 311 yards from my .270 AI; it was a pass through ...

Hopefully, others with far more experience than I do on Berger bullets chimes in.

Cheers!

 

[M Rosslee]

Thanks for sharing the pix. In my own personal and limited experience, I have not recovered any Berger bullet yet (but frankly though, I did not look that hard but will do next time); suspects it fragmented into less visible pieces.

On the other hand, below was taken with 175 Matrix VLD (similar design) at 2993 FPS MV at 311 yards from my .270 AI; it was a pass through ...

Hopefully, others with far more experience than I do on Berger bullets chimes in.

Cheers!

Awesome! Pass through at that distance means it maintained its weight and a single structure. Awesome vital damage too... Was the kill quick? With vital damage like that it must have been a violent stop.

I have notice on many occasions that the inclination to fragment is not necessarily due to bone impact. I have had shots pass through between the ribs with PMP ammo here (similar to Hornday Interlocks in toughness and structure) and they have broken apart and deconstructed.

I have also seen quite a few failures on monolythics in respect of expansion... You can't afford narrow wound channels on titans like gemsbuck, eland, kudu and bluewildebeest (even the zebra is a machine with a sub-optimal wound channel).

I shot a zebra stallion a few years ago at around 230 yards in Ograbies (Kalahari) with a 300 Winchester Magnum and the monolythic bullet of choice entered on the shoulder, glanced off of the shoulder bone, turned to run along the ribcage (after nicking a lung and sending bone fragments into the chest cavity) toward the rear-end, exited from the back rib (tearing a massive hole in the rumen causing stomach contents to fall from the side) re-entered at the hip and exited out of the rear-end with a massive jagged wound...

Sub-optimal penetration is also an issue at longer distances on larger game (and bullet fragmentation), which is what I fear when using match-style bullets (even in heavier weights)... The shotgun effect may be problematic when hitting a rib squarely from 400-500 yards as the reduction in energy may cause these tiny bullet fragments to cause sub-optimal wounding to the vital organs and lower velocity may reduce the wounding and hydrostatic shock to have very little effect.

I personally choose the Hornady Interbond and Sierra Gameking as my bullets of choice and have taken over 30 heads of game with both bullets (mostly Gameking).

The rest of the game that I have hunted have been with PMP ProAmm or standard factory ammo.

 

[WildRose]

I have noted a few gentlemen here having similar issues with the Barnes projectiles (please don't hang me for saying that) but they often fail to expand (see attached pic)... Expansion on heavy thin- skinned African game (BWB, zebra, eland, gemsbuck etc) is important due to their receptive resilience and energy absorption capabilities. I'm sure you've seen that here... A BWB bull sucks up bullet energy and converts it into stamina and speed

Boar hogs are just as tough as our warthog and bush pig here! I know the frustration of a bullet not doing what it needs to when shooting the big pigs... I have had a few bullets change travel direction in large warthog bodies after initial bone impact instead of punching through....

Our wild hogs here in the southern pat of the country have developed really tough layer of cartilege that protects them from behind the shoulder all the way around and under their neck called the "Shield".

On really big old boars it can be 3-5 inches thick and it can embarrass bullets that work great on just about anything else in our country save the really big bears and ice/mud covered Elk.

You literally would not believe what we find buried in that cartilage when caping one out for mounting.

We've recovered broad head arrow points, bird shot, buck shot and even bullets up to .30 caliber from wounds that have obviously been healed for years.

I have yet to take a boar warthog and looking at pictures of them I can't tell if they have the same shield? Would you know? I never thought to discuss it with Francois and the game for some reason, probably because I just lose my mind looking at them HA! gun)

 

[WildRose]

Thank you. Funnily enough, my 30-06 Springfield with a 22" standard barrel and 1:10" twist smashed a 180gr Sierra Gameking into the thick stuff on the BWB and expanded perfectly, retaining around 156gr in projectile mass... It maintained its course and destroyed the heart and lungs ... The MV was 2600fps and impact distance was about 150m... The BWB ran about 50m without dropping a droplet of blood, with a broken shoulder and destroyed internal organs... I thought my shot had not hit home.. The farmer was skeptical too (considering the nature of the BWB). (see attached pic of vital damage and consider an animal running after that - hence caution when shooting at these blokes at a distance)

I have shot Hornady Interbond in 338 Winchester Magnum! Fantastic bullet, Hornady is just not well represented in SA due to the high USA consumption (we have a few bullets come in and our shooting populace absorbs them). I shot a nice blesbuck ram at around 250m (in under the tail) and the shot stopped just under the skin in the chest (Texas hear shot) with 95% bullet retention. That's a 225gr projectile with a MV of 2810fps out of a 24" 1:10twist barrel. (see attached pic and consider landscape)

I shot a few gemsbuck with Hornady Interbonds but didn't recover any projectiles which says a lot about its retention and terminal ballistic characteristics... Fantastic wound channels producing quick kills on tough game (with the right caliber).

Ah! Classic Arms in Witbank. It's a bit far from me but everybody here knows them I don't know the owner personally but I check his rifle prices in our hunting magazines.

I'm in Johannesburg and am a recreational hunter, hunting about 4-6 times a year in different regions in South Africa. We have our open plains and desert hunts and our wooded areas (bushveld) all boasting a variety of different game species (each presenting their own caliber and hunting style adjustments).

That's awesome! Good to know we've got some American canine blood here too... Because you Yank gentlemen sure can build a rifle.... I love my Remington Mod 700. gun)

I don't doubt it at all. Francois really likes the SGK's and so do most of the other guys I know there.

If you want/need some interbonds just give them a call at Classic Arms and tell him and if he can get them I know he'll be happy to do it.

He also trials the dogs and bird hunts in the JHB area and I'll bet if you asked he'd love to have you join them on a hunting or training day with the dogs. He's never bashful about showing them off! HA!!!

 

[WildRose]

Low and behold, another Peregrine bullet failure 30-06 on the shoulder at 2600fps... Not cool... See attached pic.

Hmm. Is that the VRG-4? What animal species?

 

[TackDriv3r]

I have used a .338 Lapua 250 grain GameKing on a Nilgai head on at 225 yards. It was facing me and it took the bullet about an inch left of the center mass of its chest and continued through to the rear leg and stopped right under the skin and it ran about 100 yards and dropped. The bullet was nicely mushroomed and retained about 70% of its weight. Upon cleaning it the lungs were completely destroyed / also part of the heart and left quite a mess along the way.
The other nilgai hunt was with the 7 STW with a 150 Scirrocco at 200 yards broadside at 3350 fps and little hole in the entrance and thumb sized hole on the exit through the lungs. It ran about 150 yards before expiring. Tough critters. I just have a bad habit of shooting game behind the crease of the shoulders to keep the shoulders clean from bruising and meat damage. It's where tracking comes next which took me 20 mins to find the nilgai in 4 foot high grass. Side note, the Scirrocco is a great bullet, holds together very well due to its thicker jacket compared to Nosler BT.

 

[M Rosslee]

Our wild hogs here in the southern pat of the country have developed really tough layer of cartilege that protects them from behind the shoulder all the way around and under their neck called the "Shield".

On really big old boars it can be 3-5 inches thick and it can embarrass bullets that work great on just about anything else in our country save the really big bears and ice/mud covered Elk.

You literally would not believe what we find buried in that cartilage when caping one out for mounting.

We've recovered broad head arrow points, bird shot, buck shot and even bullets up to .30 caliber from wounds that have obviously been healed for years.

I have yet to take a boar warthog and looking at pictures of them I can't tell if they have the same shield? Would you know? I never thought to discuss it with Francois and the game for some reason, probably because I just lose my mind looking at them HA! gun)

Our warthog bores don't have "shields" as per say but are one of the toughest species to hunt in our country.

They are incredibly stocky, muscular beasts with a tough frame that absorbs energy as a wild bore would (transferring it through the frame into the ground).

Their bone structure is also tough and I have seen warthog bores take hits with 300gr SP's out of 375 H and H's and go crashing through the bush after a vital (heart/lung) shot only to expire near to 100 yards away. Incredible stuff.

They are very much like our BWB, with a strange will to cling to life... Unlike the softer giant eland who, when hit in the box, expires quite swiftly.

 

[M Rosslee]

I have used a .338 Lapua 250 grain GameKing on a Nilgai head on at 225 yards. It was facing me and it took the bullet about an inch left of the center mass of its chest and continued through to the rear leg and stopped right under the skin and it ran about 100 yards and dropped. The bullet was nicely mushroomed and retained about 70% of its weight. Upon cleaning it the lungs were completely destroyed / also part of the heart and left quite a mess along the way.
The other nilgai hunt was with the 7 STW with a 150 Scirrocco at 200 yards broadside at 3350 fps and little hole in the entrance and thumb sized hole on the exit through the lungs. It ran about 150 yards before expiring. Tough critters. I just have a bad habit of shooting game behind the crease of the shoulders to keep the shoulders clean from bruising and meat damage. It's where tracking comes next which took me 20 mins to find the nilgai in 4 foot high grass. Side note, the Scirrocco is a great bullet, holds together very well due to its thicker jacket compared to Nosler BT.

Sirocco is an awesome bullet, but in South Africa it is grossly overpriced and not a viable option for an every-weekend shooter and range guy. Just to develop the load would cost a small fortune (a bit dramatic but you get my drift).

I'm very chuffed with the Sierra Gameking and its killing capabilities as well as its terminal ballistic performance and energy transfer (it hits like a bus).

I have a bad habit (if we're admitting) of shooting game in the thick stuff (ON THE SHOULDER) and breaking the foreleg or shoulder to debilitate to the extreme and I shoot low in the box to cause heart/circulatory trauma...

A lot of our game animals are poor bleeders and it makes tracking spoor a nightmare on hard ground if there isn't any blood (doesn't allow hoof imprints in the soil).

 

[M Rosslee]

Hmm. Is that the VRG-4? What animal species?

I think it is! It was on a bluewildebeest broadside, initial rib impact and glanced off to stop in hip under the skin.

Not ideal on any hunt, but superbly inconvenient when hunting BWB...

The bluewildebeest is our "poor man's buffalo".

If you do not destroy the vitals, you're not going to retrieve him easily. And he's also a poor bleeder due to his thick hide and the distance from his chest to the ground (not as high as your massive moose but high).

Oftentimes I have had solid shoulder hits on bluewildebeest and they just don't bleed and you have to crawl eventually to stay on the beast's spoor.

Luckily, this hunter managed to recover his BWB and the peregrine.