I thought he was using a chrono on every shot? If there was a squib load This wound have been apparent on the chronic readings correct?
How to blowup your rifle
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I thought he was using a chrono on every shot? If there was a squib load This wound have been apparent on the chronic readings correct?
Well. I destroyed my 300 RUM today.
Yesterday I was testing some load development on my 300 RUM with Berger 230 with Retumbo.
Everything went well and found a load that appeared to group well. 86.8 gr. COL of 3.600" Federal 215 primers on Hornady Brass.
The temps were 3 degrees and a slight breeze bringing the windchill temps down to -15.
I went home and loaded a few more rounds at that charge and try a couple other loads.
Today it was -10 with a 20mph wind. For some reason no one else was at the range. I fired 20 rounds of 190gr Nosler Accubonds to make sure that everything was working well and to warm myself up a bit. I am getting about 3100 fps out of the 190s with Retumbo at 91.5gr
20 rounds fired and not a single issue. I was firing a 2 rounds then I would let it sit for few minutes and fire other rifles.
About an hour into it I then switched over to the 230 grain rounds. I fired the first round. 3129fps and I couldn't lift the bolt. Something was seriously wrong. I broke off the bolt handle trying to open it at the range hitting it with my hand trying to open the action.
I took the rifle to my local smith and I attempted to get the bolt out. After three hours f trying everything under the sun, No luck. There is a picture of the results:
It was very difficult to put the gun on a band saw and cut it apart.
To say the least I am not happy. A perfectly good rifle is now a pile of scrap.
I went home and pulled all the bullets to check the powder charges. I used a two different scales and I was within .1 grain of what I loaded.
I don't know what happened. Obviously over pressured. It was 3 degrees out when I tested the rounds and it was only -10 today. There were no pressure sings, no cratered primers, nothing that would indicate that there were any issues on that same load the day before.
What a great way to end the year. I guess I will be looking for a new rifle in the new year.
Sorry for this experience, but glad your life and limb are preserved. IMHO, the problem of over-pressurization was caused from condensation/freezing moisture within the barrel. Liquid on the lands and in the grooves will caused increased frictional forces working against the projectile and the gases behind the projectile. When moving from a warm car/cabin to cold shooting range, or stalking in the cold woods, I swab my barrel and then cover the muzzle to remove/prevent moisture condensation in the barrel. Again, glad you came out safely.
Glad to hear your ok. Im not up on the cold weather at that range of cold but I know that down here in Florida if I'm 28 -30 degrees and shoot 15 to 30 rounds I will dry patch the barrel because of moisture and that will also destroy a barrel not saying this was a problem but maybe something to think of.
longrangebob
Well-Known Member
I really appreciated this forum, being a COLD weather Hunter in Cdn. Rockies - & am always cognizant of Cold Weater, snow, Ice, Condensation -- warm truck to -30C.
Don't hunt w/ Max loads in winter --
Am I missing something !! Why Not put in Action & Barrel wrench & "Spin It Off"??? Rather than cutting it ??? LRB
Don't hunt w/ Max loads in winter --
Am I missing something !! Why Not put in Action & Barrel wrench & "Spin It Off"??? Rather than cutting it ??? LRB
epoletna
Well-Known Member
First off, condolences on the loss of the rifle and thank God you are safe.
After reading this entire thread and your description of the teardown of the unfired loads, I find it hard to believe cold or bridging would have done this. Secondly, the fact you have a velocity that is more or less normal indicates that a super hot load, as from a squib/delayed ignition and detonation was not the issue.
I am leaning in the direction of over annealed brass, or brass that somehow was annealed near the case head, as the problem. I have seen brass flow in an action and that is the only explanation I can come up with for locking up like that.
I have had hard-to-extract situations, and actually carry a short (18") piece of 2X2 wood in the truck to tap the bolt handle with if I have that again. I have never been able to break a bolt handle off with my hand or a piece of 2X2 wood. I am surprised you were able to do that.
Finally, using a band saw on the action strikes me as uncalled for. Not having been there, I can't judge what the frame of mind of the participants was, but that strikes me as excessive.
After reading this entire thread and your description of the teardown of the unfired loads, I find it hard to believe cold or bridging would have done this. Secondly, the fact you have a velocity that is more or less normal indicates that a super hot load, as from a squib/delayed ignition and detonation was not the issue.
I am leaning in the direction of over annealed brass, or brass that somehow was annealed near the case head, as the problem. I have seen brass flow in an action and that is the only explanation I can come up with for locking up like that.
I have had hard-to-extract situations, and actually carry a short (18") piece of 2X2 wood in the truck to tap the bolt handle with if I have that again. I have never been able to break a bolt handle off with my hand or a piece of 2X2 wood. I am surprised you were able to do that.
Finally, using a band saw on the action strikes me as uncalled for. Not having been there, I can't judge what the frame of mind of the participants was, but that strikes me as excessive.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I would say I'd be hesitant to have used this action and bolt again, a guy may have gotten it apart another way but the end result is probably for the better!!
JohnMill
Well-Known Member
I can not believe that was necessary. You could easily get that barrel off with out trashing that actionWell. I destroyed my 300 RUM today.
Yesterday I was testing some load development on my 300 RUM with Berger 230 with Retumbo.
Everything went well and found a load that appeared to group well. 86.8 gr. COL of 3.600" Federal 215 primers on Hornady Brass.
The temps were 3 degrees and a slight breeze bringing the windchill temps down to -15.
I went home and loaded a few more rounds at that charge and try a couple other loads.
Today it was -10 with a 20mph wind. For some reason no one else was at the range. I fired 20 rounds of 190gr Nosler Accubonds to make sure that everything was working well and to warm myself up a bit. I am getting about 3100 fps out of the 190s with Retumbo at 91.5gr
20 rounds fired and not a single issue. I was firing a 2 rounds then I would let it sit for few minutes and fire other rifles.
About an hour into it I then switched over to the 230 grain rounds. I fired the first round. 3129fps and I couldn't lift the bolt. Something was seriously wrong. I broke off the bolt handle trying to open it at the range hitting it with my hand trying to open the action.
I took the rifle to my local smith and I attempted to get the bolt out. After three hours f trying everything under the sun, No luck. There is a picture of the results:
It was very difficult to put the gun on a band saw and cut it apart.
To say the least I am not happy. A perfectly good rifle is now a pile of scrap.
I went home and pulled all the bullets to check the powder charges. I used a two different scales and I was within .1 grain of what I loaded.
I don't know what happened. Obviously over pressured. It was 3 degrees out when I tested the rounds and it was only -10 today. There were no pressure sings, no cratered primers, nothing that would indicate that there were any issues on that same load the day before.
What a great way to end the year. I guess I will be looking for a new rifle in the new year.
epoletna
Well-Known Member
Big: That thought occurred to me, and I too might have been hesitant to use that action again. But I think cutting the action made it harder to learn after the fact what actually happened and what damage was suffered.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Cutting the action of didn't change anything, the bolt is in tact as well as the front ring, barrel and case so no evidence of what happened was destroyed, the only thing that was lost was the ability to replicate the failure and considering the nature of a gun locking up it's not a path that one should go down out side a bomb lab or something that can handle metal pieces flying.
longrangebob
Well-Known Member
Part #2 -- thinking while taking Lab 4 morning constitutional --- when hunting always visually check barrel & then put a muzzle mitt on it B4 heading out into cold !! Dread the idea of melted snow, frost or H2O freezing inside barrel??
What were conditions @ your range when shooting, besides chilly?? Was this the first shot in new string??
Any chance bolt metal failed??
Have an ole Rem 700 BDL SA that started out life as .244 Varmint, had a mid-life change to 6.5X284 ( but did not like the cartridge length restriction(s) w/detachable box -- so it became .260AI Hunting/tactical; Chet Brown Stock, Dave Tubb Spring & Pin in Bolt, Jewell Trigger, new Loopy LR TMR,
AND Then @ the range ----- shooting in the summer -- (no stiff lifts) -- there was a "cease-fire" so everyone had to clear their rifles AND when I lifted my Bolt Handle that was all I got -- bolt handle -- the Live .260AI round was still chambered (Gunsmith's Nightmare anyone !?!? )
After everything being safely disassembled, multiple attempts @ reattaching handle -- (silver solder, even welding) - no repairs would hold -- it appears as if flaw in metal ?? Fatigue??
Sent old Bolt to Dave Kiff in White City, Ore. & got replacement Bolt made -- all has been fine since
Just saying -- sometime Metal has a flaw or fatigues or Fails -- glad no injuries LRB
What were conditions @ your range when shooting, besides chilly?? Was this the first shot in new string??
Any chance bolt metal failed??
Have an ole Rem 700 BDL SA that started out life as .244 Varmint, had a mid-life change to 6.5X284 ( but did not like the cartridge length restriction(s) w/detachable box -- so it became .260AI Hunting/tactical; Chet Brown Stock, Dave Tubb Spring & Pin in Bolt, Jewell Trigger, new Loopy LR TMR,
AND Then @ the range ----- shooting in the summer -- (no stiff lifts) -- there was a "cease-fire" so everyone had to clear their rifles AND when I lifted my Bolt Handle that was all I got -- bolt handle -- the Live .260AI round was still chambered (Gunsmith's Nightmare anyone !?!? )
After everything being safely disassembled, multiple attempts @ reattaching handle -- (silver solder, even welding) - no repairs would hold -- it appears as if flaw in metal ?? Fatigue??
Sent old Bolt to Dave Kiff in White City, Ore. & got replacement Bolt made -- all has been fine since
Just saying -- sometime Metal has a flaw or fatigues or Fails -- glad no injuries LRB
Glad the OP is OK!
Winkfish, Glad the rifle was the only casualty!
This is a long-shot....did you clean your cases between reloads, and if so, is there any possibility that there could have been any media left in the base of the shell casing that could have effected ignition?
Perhaps it's just an anomaly in the picture(or my eyes), but there is a light ring that appears about halfway up the case. Wondering if this could be an indication of a detonation issue. More frequently appearing above the rim/belt, it is generally the first sign of a case separation.
I have been using Retumbo in a few of my rifles for several years in temperatures ranging from sub-zero to 85F. Most of my shooting has been with the 6.5x284 using 140gr Berger and JLK's, both with J4 jackets. Like H1000, Retumbo does clump when loaded into the case, particularly when loaded near 100% case capacity. Even one day later, it takes a bit of digging to get it all out of a loaded case. I have never seen this to be an issue with consistency of velocity, ES, or accuracy when shooting in temperatures from about 35F to 85F when using Fed210M primers. When temperatures approach freezing I have on occasion seen a climb in velocity of 10-20FPS with higher ES. Every once in a while I would see a velocity spike as high as 40FPS. When I switched my load to 1gr less powder charge and used Fed215M primers my original velocity and ES was restored the original Fed210M load, with very consistent results produced from freezing-warm temperatures. It's only a theory, but I speculated that ignition is effected at the lower temps and that the weight of the un-burnt(and clumpy)powder in the barrel/chamber could be raising pressure/velocity. From this experience I was inclined to buy into Hogdon's response to Winkfish about the Federal primers not being hot enough in sub zero temps. Perhaps the Federal 215 isn't hot enough to fully ignite Retumbo in the large 300 magnum which could have produced a high pressure ignition issue. I suspect if this were the issue it would be more exaggerated from what I experienced with my lower capacity 6.5x284. Just some thoughts.
Here are a couple images of the case I was able to remove. The case had really expanded. It took a fair amount of effort to drive it out.
Winkfish, Glad the rifle was the only casualty!
This is a long-shot....did you clean your cases between reloads, and if so, is there any possibility that there could have been any media left in the base of the shell casing that could have effected ignition?
Perhaps it's just an anomaly in the picture(or my eyes), but there is a light ring that appears about halfway up the case. Wondering if this could be an indication of a detonation issue. More frequently appearing above the rim/belt, it is generally the first sign of a case separation.
I have been using Retumbo in a few of my rifles for several years in temperatures ranging from sub-zero to 85F. Most of my shooting has been with the 6.5x284 using 140gr Berger and JLK's, both with J4 jackets. Like H1000, Retumbo does clump when loaded into the case, particularly when loaded near 100% case capacity. Even one day later, it takes a bit of digging to get it all out of a loaded case. I have never seen this to be an issue with consistency of velocity, ES, or accuracy when shooting in temperatures from about 35F to 85F when using Fed210M primers. When temperatures approach freezing I have on occasion seen a climb in velocity of 10-20FPS with higher ES. Every once in a while I would see a velocity spike as high as 40FPS. When I switched my load to 1gr less powder charge and used Fed215M primers my original velocity and ES was restored the original Fed210M load, with very consistent results produced from freezing-warm temperatures. It's only a theory, but I speculated that ignition is effected at the lower temps and that the weight of the un-burnt(and clumpy)powder in the barrel/chamber could be raising pressure/velocity. From this experience I was inclined to buy into Hogdon's response to Winkfish about the Federal primers not being hot enough in sub zero temps. Perhaps the Federal 215 isn't hot enough to fully ignite Retumbo in the large 300 magnum which could have produced a high pressure ignition issue. I suspect if this were the issue it would be more exaggerated from what I experienced with my lower capacity 6.5x284. Just some thoughts.
Why guns blow up is a question for Zeus, as far as the action goes there are several ways of saving it for further use. Usually in less than severe the case is locked against the bolt face causing the reluctance to unlock. so why not just devise a way to tap the cocking piece in an effort to resize the case enough to relieve the pressure on the bolt? As already suggested unscrew the barrel. The bolt attachment is the Achilles heel of the 700 series actions, however there are several ways to address that too.
SidecarFlip
Well-Known Member
I never push a 300 past 3000 fps. No point and... There are a ton of bad loads on the net, why I never allude to what I load. Scrap value is about 40 cents a pound right now.
