How to blowup your rifle

[den]

BTW glad you are ok and sorry about youre rifle , I don't have any 230s bergers to try but a 212 eldx is barely hanging on at 3.600 oal and are right on top of 86.8 of retumbo in a fired norma case ,are the 230s supported well by the neck or could it have possibly been jammed back into the case going up the feed ramp ?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is the next idea that comes to mind. What is the possibility of an oversized bullet? Somehow a 338 in a 308 box? Not sure that it could even be seated. It seems like it would need to be something drastic like this to creat this much pressure.

Steve

 

[elkaholic]

Here is the next idea that comes to mind. What is the possibility of an oversized bullet? Somehow a 338 in a 308 box? Not sure that it could even be seated. It seems like it would need to be something drastic like this to creat this
much pressure.

Steve

I don't think it could possibly chamber. The bullet would have to push back a LONG way into the case and there would be no room with that charge.

 

[elkaholic]

Also the neck tension if he tried to seat it would be horrendous!

 

[den]

I thought of that too remembering the threads about out of spec eldx bullets where somebody said that the oversized or fat bullets could cause pressure spikes in a certain set of criteria this was why I asked about the loaded neck diameter earlier. I bought a couple boxes of 7mm about ten years ago and I somehow just happened to weight some and had two boxes that were new sealed 168s in 180 boxes they were sent back to the manufacture and replaced that could have been a problem the other way around at max charges for sure

 

[elkaholic]

I thought of that too remembering the threads about out of spec eldx bullets where somebody said that the oversized or fat bullets could cause pressure spikes in a certain set of criteria this was why I asked about the loaded neck diameter earlier. I bought a couple boxes of 7mm about ten years ago and I somehow just happened to weight some and had two boxes that were new sealed 168s in 180 boxes they were sent back to the manufacture and replaced that could have been a problem the other way around at max charges for sure

I had a box of 6.5 140 vld's with a .284 included! Can't remember for sure on the weight but I think it was a 168?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I had a box of 6.5 140 vld's with a .284 included! Can't remember for sure on the weight but I think it was a 168?

That is what I had in mind. And I don't think it possible either. What is possibility of a bullet that did not get final sizing making it's way into a box of bullets?

Steve

 

[Trickymissfit]

Thinking of the temps while shooting, and then looking at the photos. I see what looks like a light grey matte metal in my photos. This says 416SS steel or something very close. Now investigate the metallurgical properties in extreme cold. yet if the receiver is some form of chrome moly steel, then disregard due to my eyeballs.

Find it interesting that one could wear the bolt from a nine lug Weatherby in his forehead!! Probably took 250,000psi to get this done! Or roughly 150K psi per square inch of area (give or take 10K psi)

What I'd like to see, even though we are too late. Is to have the action Xrayed for cracks. Then I'd like to see exactly what the bolt lug seating area looks like. If it is stainless steel we may well get some answers.
gary

 

[elkaholic]

That is what I had in mind. And I don't think it possible either. What is possibility of a bullet that did not get final sizing making it's way into a box of bullets?
Good question? When it happened to me, I didn't even own a .284 so I knew it wasn't senility

Steve

 

[Scooterbum]

Well. I destroyed my 300 RUM today.

Yesterday I was testing some load development on my 300 RUM with Berger 230 with Retumbo.

Everything went well and found a load that appeared to group well. 86.8 gr. COL of 3.600" Federal 215 primers on Hornady Brass.

The temps were 3 degrees and a slight breeze bringing the windchill temps down to -15.

I went home and loaded a few more rounds at that charge and try a couple other loads.

Today it was -10 with a 20mph wind. For some reason no one else was at the range. I fired 20 rounds of 190gr Nosler Accubonds to make sure that everything was working well and to warm myself up a bit. I am getting about 3100 fps out of the 190s with Retumbo at 91.5gr

20 rounds fired and not a single issue. I was firing a 2 rounds then I would let it sit for few minutes and fire other rifles.

About an hour into it I then switched over to the 230 grain rounds. I fired the first round. 3129fps and I couldn't lift the bolt. Something was seriously wrong. I broke off the bolt handle trying to open it at the range hitting it with my hand trying to open the action.

I took the rifle to my local smith and I attempted to get the bolt out. After three hours f trying everything under the sun, No luck. There is a picture of the results:

It was very difficult to put the gun on a band saw and cut it apart.

To say the least I am not happy. A perfectly good rifle is now a pile of scrap.

I went home and pulled all the bullets to check the powder charges. I used a two different scales and I was within .1 grain of what I loaded.

I don't know what happened. Obviously over pressured. It was 3 degrees out when I tested the rounds and it was only -10 today. There were no pressure sings, no cratered primers, nothing that would indicate that there were any issues on that same load the day before.

What a great way to end the year. I guess I will be looking for a new rifle in the new year.

U said u went home loaded a few more at that charge and try a few other loads. What are the other loads?

 

[Scooterbum]

If a 91.5 got into a 230 load, u would have been 3.5 over max.

 

[J E Custom]

In hindsight I maybe should have taken it to someone else who may have had more working knowledge of such problems. There may have been alternate ways to disassemble the rifle that could have provided more insight as to the root fault. Since we were unable to remove the barrel it sounded reasonable to take the path we did.

I guess like other things in life it always good to get a second opinion or it may cost you.

I have the parts all packaged up and ready to ship out tomorrow to see if bigngreen can see what he can find in the barrel.

I would not rule out operator error and if someone is able to determine it was my fault I can accept that use that information to be more informed, safe and open to more points of view in the future.

To answer a few of the other questions:
I opened my jug of Retumbo powder in October of 2017.
I did not see any powder clumping in either dispensing the charge initially or when I measured it after removing the bullets and checking weights.

All the federal primers came from the same lot and the ones used for the 230 Berger were from the same 100 primer package.

The brass was the same batch of 20 Hornady cases and only have been used in this rifle and only with the 230 Berger. The cases have only been reloaded twice.

I initially tested the Berger 230 with a starting load of 86.2 and a max of 88.5 the previous day. I was doing .3 gr steps. There were no pressure signs with any of those loads and the rifle performed without fault. The temp on the day these rounds were tested was 3 degrees. I was unable to get velocities on that day due to fact it was snowing and overcast, so the chrono would not pickup the rounds.


I appreciate the comments. Hopefully it will also provide other folks options if they experience the same fault and possibly their rifle can be saved.

If I missed any questions let me know and I will try and answer them.

Sounds like you did your due diligence and it still happened anyway. So you will have to go back and re think what might have happened.

Its a shame it cost you a rifle but you will get through it and learn from it and probably become More particular. Some take what we do for granted that nothing will happen and this is proof that it will/can.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Riflehunter1776]

if the cases were new, I wonder if one was defective from the factory? Possibly wrong case head dimensions?

I do know an individual who blew up a nice swedish mauser by trying to make ersatz 6.5x55 brass from 308 brass. The first 4 apparently went off with no problems, but the 5th blew the receiver to pieces. Obviously that was his own stupidity, but sometimes
weird things happen that are not the fault of the operator; we trust our components to be exactly what the box says they are and don't always check them ....... but it isn't necessarily the case. I once saw a whole shipment of rifles marked on the box and barrel as "270" which were actually 280's. I won't mention the brand.

the only other issues I can think of with cold weather would possibly cause malfunctions, but not necessarily a catastrophic failure. Repeatedly taking a rifle and ammunition in and out of a heated building into sub zero temps will cause condensation issues - this is why the Wehrmacht in general and snipers in particular were ordered not to do this on the russian front in the winter. Now in the short term, the condensation might cause powder clumping, but doubtfully anything more than that...

 

[HARPERC]

I generally think of these things (absent the obvious) as perfect storms. The cumulative effect of all the little things.
I vaguely remember someone shooting oversized bullets without catastrophic events. Maybe Ackley, but I don't have the books any more.