How to beat the 338 Lapua?

[Savage06]

Sticking with conservative published data on Hodgdon.com and using Hornady's ballistic calculator for 338 LM vs 7mm RUM you have:

1153 fps @ 1700 yds 92 gr Retumbo BC=.659 for Berger 7mm VLD 180 gr (max load)
1022 fps @ 2000 yds

1130 fps @ 1700 yds 98 gr Retumbo BC=.682 for 250 gr Berger Match Elite Hunter
1011 fps @ 2000 yds

1157 fps @ 1800 yds 94 gr Retumbo BC=.818 for 300 gr Berger Match Elite Hunter
1078 fps @ 2000 yds

For 59 deg F @ Sea level.

I'm told the 7mm will eat up barrels but the cost of shooting the 7mm is 50% that of the 338.

 

[sp6x6]

The problem is at the longer ranges you dont begin to have the energy for elk type game reliably

 

[BigBboy25]

The problem is at the longer ranges you dont begin to have the energy for elk type game reliably

What velocity/energy fo you feel is necessary for elk? Plus, it's not the energy that HIT'S the animal, it's the energy that is TRANSFERRED to the animal that counts. If a FMJ hit's an elk, and punches a pencil hole through, not much energy is transferred, and not a lot of hydrostatic shot. But if an acccubond hits an elk at the same velocity and stops on the off side, alot more energy is transferred. . .

Personally, I feel a 1 mile shot on an elk is unethical/immoral, and shows how lazy of a hunter you are. If you cannot get closer than 1 mile of a game animal, you're a self proclaimed LR expert, a range monkey, and shouldn't be allowed to hunt or breed.

I understand long range hunting and have taken elk out to 818 yards. I take long shots when nothing else is an option. I get as close as possible. But if you can't get closer than 1,760 yards, hell, even 1,000 yards, you are either hunting smarter elk than I, are lazy or have an ego complex.

 

[steeltraps]

Savage 06= Your calculations are WAY SLOW!!!! 2650 fps with 300 OTM berger is a waste of a bullet and not accurate for US 338 lapua shooters! AT 2750 fps 59 /44/29.44 with a 300 otm at 2000 yards it 1112 fps. AT 2850 FPS WITH 300 otm you get 1156 fps ! Not to mention the 338 imp. at 3000fps gets 1210 fps at 2000 yards with .818 bc= 300 gr OTM berger! MY friends Savage 338 Lapua and MY rem 700 MLR 338 lapua both shoot 2800 fps plus! I HAVE GOT my rem 700 mlr up to 2915 fps with 300 otms before! Accuracy was not good, 1 1/4 moa, but I run that straight 338 lapua 2850 - 2875 fps with 300 otms and get 5/8 to 3/4 moa all day! My point is this= It is a unfair, compareson you are giving for the 338 lapua when you list 2000 yard data with book loads that are 2650 fps!! Please tell me no one wastes 300 grain bullets shooting them this slow!!!!

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I understand long range hunting and have taken elk out to 818 yards. I take long shots when nothing else is an option. I get as close as possible. But if you can't get closer than 1,760 yards, hell, even 1,000 yards, you are either hunting smarter elk than I, are lazy or have an ego complex.

So 818yds is ok but 1000yds is too far?

 

[sp6x6]

What velocity/energy fo you feel is necessary for elk? Plus, it's not the energy that HIT'S the animal, it's the energy that is TRANSFERRED to the animal that counts. If a FMJ hit's an elk, and punches a pencil hole through, not much energy is transferred, and not a lot of hydrostatic shot. But if an acccubond hits an elk at the same velocity and stops on the off side, alot more energy is transferred. . .

Personally, I feel a 1 mile shot on an elk is unethical/immoral, and shows how lazy of a hunter you are. If you cannot get closer than 1 mile of a game animal, you're a self proclaimed LR expert, a range monkey, and shouldn't be allowed to hunt or breed.

I understand long range hunting and have taken elk out to 818 yards. I take long shots when nothing else is an option. I get as close as possible. But if you can't get closer than 1,760 yards, hell, even 1,000 yards, you are either hunting smarter elk than I, are lazy or have an ego complex.

I said at longer ranges,did not say a mile. And I think of this some what as in genral 7mm compareded to 338. Not the hottest 7 compared to the fastest 338. More what is actually out in the woods hunting . I gave up my 7mm , 30 yrs ago to go with 340 WBY then Norma after that,and that a big difference in E. I have also taken 6 pt bulls at 3 yards and several under 20. I picked up the 340 when I 20 as a dedicated elk hunter.I believe I can get close as Ive taken close to 100 animals with stck and string with many pope and 2 B&C

 

[MMERSS]

What velocity/energy fo you feel is necessary for elk? Plus, it's not the energy that HIT'S the animal, it's the energy that is TRANSFERRED to the animal that counts. If a FMJ hit's an elk, and punches a pencil hole through, not much energy is transferred, and not a lot of hydrostatic shot. But if an acccubond hits an elk at the same velocity and stops on the off side, alot more energy is transferred. . .

Personally, I feel a 1 mile shot on an elk is unethical/immoral, and shows how lazy of a hunter you are. If you cannot get closer than 1 mile of a game animal, you're a self proclaimed LR expert, a range monkey, and shouldn't be allowed to hunt or breed.

I understand long range hunting and have taken elk out to 818 yards. I take long shots when nothing else is an option. I get as close as possible. But if you can't get closer than 1,760 yards, hell, even 1,000 yards, you are either hunting smarter elk than I, are lazy or have an ego complex.

All-encompassing conditions and confidence limits provide for more of an overall picture on the potential for success than specifically range only. What would one consider as an opportunity for better success, an 1100 yard shot on an elk with a 338 or an 800 yard shot with a 7mm?

Using an uncertainty analysis and referencing shot probability identified in Applied Ballistics Accuracy and Precision for Long Range Shooting Table 18.9 and Table 18.18, could the following make a difference with a person's decision to take or not take a shot? Which table example would be considered more appropriate?

7mm, 168 gr high BC bullet, 3000 fps, +- 5 MPH wind uncertainty, +-5 yards range uncertainty, 15" circular target, table indicates a 58% hit probability at 800 yards.

338, 300 gr high BC bullet, 3300 fps, +- 1 MPH wind uncertainty +-5 yards range uncertainty, 15" circular target, table indicates a 99% hit probability at 1100 yards. To estimate similar uncertainty to the 7mm conditions of 58% and the 338 conditions following, the corresponding range according to the table would be 1600 yards at 62% for the 338.

What example above would be less appropriate, the 7mm conditions with 58% hit probability at 800 yards or the 338 conditions with 62% at 1600 yards? Could one consider both as a no shoot situation?

Conditions are more helpful with discussion regarding hunting success rather than specifically range only success, then criticizing decisions based on range only without the conditions.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

7mm, 168 gr high BC bullet, 3000 fps, +- 5 MPH wind uncertainty, +-5 yards range uncertainty, 15" circular target, table indicates a 58% hit probability at 800 yards.

338, 300 gr high BC bullet, 3300 fps, +- 1 MPH wind uncertainty +-5 yards range uncertainty, 15" circular target, table indicates a 99% hit probability at 1100 yards. To estimate similar uncertainty to the 7mm conditions of 58% and the 338 conditions following, the corresponding range according to the table would be 1600 yards at 62% for the 338.

get the wind uncertainties the same or it's apples and grapefruit.
The 7 can't play with the 338 with current offerings, and likely will not be able to any time soon. Even with similar bc, it will be hamstrung by bullet weight. That said, many are deer hunters and simply do not need the extra that the 338 offers.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

.

I have never gotten a 30 cal with a 230 to 3200 fps. But know several have with RL 33. It will be interesting to hear how the barrels hold up there. I know the 338 LM from a 30" will run at 2850 for over 1500 rounds and still shoot .5 moa. I would doubt the 30 cal at 3200 would get close to that.


Jeff

Doable, but no where near easy. I think rl50 will eventually be found out as the better powder for 300rums and 220-230 grain bullets. It has produced similar accuracy for me at milder pressures. The problem with rl50 is case capacity, but not so much that it can't be used with bullets seated out a bit. I think a few of the rl33 guys are tearing up their gear and time will show them that even 3100 fps with a 300 rum and a 230 is tough.

 

[MMERSS]

get the wind uncertainties the same or it's apples and grapefruit.

Exactly the point I was making. Regardless of 338, 7mm, etc. making a determination that range X is ok and I've done it but if its range Y that's not acceptable is a difficult argument to support without the conditions. Range y, under certain conditions, may be the more acceptable decision than range x, and as you pointed out more dependent on the conditions than the caliber. I just picked two calibers for table comparison. They could have just as easily been in reverse.

 

[270 MKV]

WOW, this hread is just in time. I am looking yo biud a rifle that will bea significant step above my lill270 winny (shooting 165 matrix @ 2850). It is a solid 1300 yard rifle.

I am looking to buid something that can stay supersonic to a mile at stadard conditions. Itlooks like a 300RUM with a 230 berger should ba able to do it!!.

Idaho CTD, thisis DieselFreak

 

[dkhunt14]

Doable, but no where near easy. I think rl50 will eventually be found out as the better powder for 300rums and 22338-3780-230 grain bullets. It has produced similar accuracy for me at milder pressures. The problem with rl50 is case capacity, but not so much that it can't be used with bullets seated out a bit. I think a few of the rl33 guys are tearing up their gear and time will show them that even 3100 fps with a 300 rum and a 230 is tough.

I have shot my 338 Lapua Imp. at 2993 with 104 grains of Re33. I have shot about 200 rounds with a 300 Berger Elite and I shoot them 10 in. My throat has not moved much at all. That means it is not tearing up the barrel. Another thing I like about it is I shot at 40 degrees and at 0 on the same day and my elevation didn't change hardly at all at 1550 yards. I could run it faster but I have the accuracy and the first generation of Bergers. As I side note my buddy shot his buck with my Lapua and Berger and liked what the bullet done on a whitetail. He previously used 300 SMK at 3100 in his 338-378 with 50 BMG. Now on warm days he sometimes was a bit sticky. He tried the Re33 and ran up to 3100 and had less pressure. He then dropped the load down and shot the Berger Elites at 3000 like me. Another thing that was interesting was the fact that even though he was running the Sierra a little over 100 faster then me, our click charts were identical out to 1800 yards. Matt

 

[new shooter]

I have shot my 338 Lapua Imp. at 2993 with 104 grains of Re33. I have shot about 200 rounds with a 300 Berger Elite and I shoot them 10 in. My throat has not moved much at all. That means it is not tearing up the barrel. Another thing I like about it is I shot at 40 degrees and at 0 on the same day and my elevation didn't change hardly at all at 1550 yards. I could run it faster but I have the accuracy and the first generation of Bergers. As I side note my buddy shot his buck with my Lapua and Berger and liked what the bullet done on a whitetail. He previously used 300 SMK at 3100 in his 338-378 with 50 BMG. Now on warm days he sometimes was a bit sticky. He tried the Re33 and ran up to 3100 and had less pressure. He then dropped the load down and shot the Berger Elites at 3000 like me. Another thing that was interesting was the fact that even though he was running the Sierra a little over 100 faster then me, our click charts were identical out to 1800 yards. Matt

how long is your barrel ? Thanks joe

 

[dkhunt14]

My barrel is a 1.450 Diameter at 36 inches. It is built like our heavy gun benchrest guns except longer barrel. It shoots 5 shots in the 4 inch range. We also got 3000 feet a second with a 338 Ultra Imp. and Re33. We had no pressure and it was only a 30 inch barrel. That gun shot 5 shots in 5 inches at 1000. That was built like our 17 pound light guns. We shot this powder in a Savage 338 Lapua and hit just shy of 3000. The Reloader 33 is made in Sweden by Bofers. The same as Re 17 and Re 50. They are made to burn with a different pressure curve to give more velocity. The other Reloader powders are made in Australia under ADI. I really love this powder because everything we put it in shot good off the 1000 yard benches at Williamsport. It also gave more velocity with less pressure. Matt