Waiting for Hornady to produce a Rifle…. You just watchThey keep trying with all the PRC, ABC, DDD, etc. etc. and just cant seem to get the same results.
Meanwhile,,all the new cartridges :
I'll stay Old School
Hornady at it again
- Thread starter stazmania
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Meanwhile,,all the new cartridges :
I'll stay Old School
QuietTexan
Well-Known Member
That was my take away from the chapter in Volume III. In scientific fashion he probably said something like "there's insufficient evidence to support causation at a statistically significant level" for tuners making a difference, but in my redneck words he was saying he can't prove the tuner makes anything better, separate and apart from simply adding mass to the part of the barrel that's furthest away from where the vibrations start.
I think there's ample evidence in the rimfire world where you pretty much can't tune ammo at all (unless you're a nutter like me who bought the CE loading kit
) that barrel tuner mass can make a difference in harmonics. But in the centerfire world there are things that are more important to fix first. A tuner won't make a 2MOA load shoot magically better, but it might take another tenth out of a fully optimized load matched to a barrel, moreso in a lighter weigt contour.In my world, more mass is pretty much always better so I have them, run them, like them, will keep them. Except when I use the JP Tank brake to really suck out the recoil.
Does the question mean if they have published their data or results? I have watched several 22 BR (All Vudoo actions with different barrels in 22LR and 17HMR) rifles be tuned with their favorite ammo and the results are as obvious as the sun coming up. When mine gets here I will have the tuner waiting for it. I don't have one single tuner on any centerfire rifle.
willfrye027
Well-Known Member
Would love to see someone prove Hornady and Litz wrong. Go ahead and post a 20 shot group of a "tuned" load and a 20 shot group of an "out of tune" load. Bonus points for giving us the mean radius.
^^^^^ This
How many people on the range everyday make high dollar decisions based on 3 shot groups. It's like those 1 moa guarantees from these companies using 3 shot groups - it's just a the statistics game. How many people are gonna send the rifle back when it shoots the occasionally 1.5 moa group? Not many, but you rightfully have a 1.5 moa rifle. I think Hornady is just being straight up.
Takeaway: Tuners (or weights on barrel) affect cross velocity. If your rifle was built well enough that pointing variation is minimal, then improving cross velocity may be a valid step to improve your precision, to be verified using a large sample size. If you have significant pointing variation in your rifle/load, then improving cross velocity may show minor to no improvement, to be verified using a large sample size. If you can disprove any of the former two statements, using a large sample size, then that would be worth reading about.
I just want to see it, that's all. Next time you are able to see it, maybe grab a video or something. I spent 8 years growing up in Missouri, so that whole state motto must have rubbed off on me…
Do you think there is a difference between centerfire and rim fire with a tuner?
Abso freakinglutely. I have seen it myself numerous times with 22/17 BR guns. Some 22/17 hard to see any difference. The majority a very clear difference and sweet spot. I never saw it really work with centerfire starting way back when the BOSS and Sims came out with their "tuners". I believe it so much when my BR22 gets here I will have the Harrell in hand and waiting.
20 shots get real!! Why not just make it an even 50 or heck 100 shot group. Would a 22LR qualify shooting 5 shot groups, and what do you mean "mean radius"? Happy to give you the center to center measurements next time one gets tuned.
victor3ranger
Well-Known Member
So, is everyone saying that the EC tuner brake is just a gimmick?
FireFlyFishing
Well-Known Member
That's what Hornady said.
cjl2010
Well-Known Member
This seems like more of a Hornady hurt feelings thread than anything else.
adam32+P
Well-Known Member
willfrye027
Well-Known Member
Heck ya 50-100 shots would be sweet.
I've asked many times for guys to "prove" their OCW workup by showing a 20 shot group of a bad node and a 20 shot group of a good node..no takers so far. 20 is where things start to be statistically significant and not too crazy to accomplish with centerfire. But 50 or 100 with rimfire and a tuner would be perfect.
Mean radius you can get on ballistic X…hard to explain but it's a little easier to see true differences in precision when comparing mean radius vs just center to center/extreme spread of the group.
Deputy819
Well-Known Member
With respect, in their latest Podcast neither Seth, Jayden, Miles nor Jeff Siewert ever said that the EC Tuner Brake was a "gimmick". What they did say was that across limited testing with 3 different rifles/cartridges (with statistically valid sample sizes by the way) that they cannot 100% confirm that tuners effectively and CONSISTENTLY correct all the other randomized variables/errors going on behind the tuner when the shot breaks.
