Heavy for caliber vs. high velocity monos

[codyadams]

There are a lot of people around running the heaviest for caliber projectiles available, and at the same time never shoot an animal over 500-600 yards, with their average shot being sub 300 yards. These people may certainly benefit from light super fast monos, and even on the rare 500-600 yard shot, the difference in wind drift between the heavies and light monos is not a terribly big factor, usually within 1 MOAish @10mph, and generally still sufficient energy to do the job.

Now on the other hand, those that take average shots at 500 or more, and reach out to 1000 or more, will likely benefit from the heavier bullets. With a well developed load, well practiced shooter, well built rifle and a good rangefinder, the only component of the shot left at a guess is wind drift, and you will almost never find a light mono that will give more room for wind estimation error (ie less wind drift) than a heavier high bc bullet. Between me and the few people I hunted with last season, the average shot we took on 14 critters was right around 650 yards, and in Wyoming (as many other places I'm sure) the wind is always going. Our long range guns have heavy high bc bullets in the majority of them.

There are a couple exceptions with newer designs, you can almost have your cake and eat it too. I am going to be running the 250 Badlands SBDII 250 grain .338 bullet in my .338 Norma. It is pretty light for chambering, considering the common place here is the 300 Berger, so 50 grains lighter is significant. However, it is also listed at having a .410 G7, not far behind the .429 G7 of the 300 Berger, but with significantly more speed. With a lot of the new bullet selections available, there are several bullets that will satisfy both the b.c. freak, as well as the speed freak.

And I love it. Ha ha!

 

[troupe]

Roy Weatherby created a good business on high velocity. He has proven time after time that high velocity kills effectively. The military test also had shown some of it. Bullet selection is better today than when all of these test were done. I can also say that high velocity with the wrong bullet is not always the best. I found out many years ago what a 140 BT at 3500 fps would do to a large whitetail shoulder. I was lucky enough to get a second round into the animal before it went around the hill, so it did not have to suffer. The damage that the first round cause would have been death, but it was not instant enough for me. I switched bullets and from them on it was lights out. BT's were great with a little distance at that velocity, but up close you had to pick your placement.

 

[FEENIX]

Now on the other hand, those that take average shots at 500 or more, and reach out to 1000 or more, will likely benefit from the heavier bullets. With a well developed load, well practiced shooter, well built rifle and a good rangefinder, the only component of the shot left at a guess is wind drift, and you will almost never find a light mono that will give more room for wind estimation error (ie less wind drift) than a heavier high bc bullet. Between me and the few people I hunted with last season, the average shot we took on 14 critters was right around 650 yards, and in Wyoming (as many other places I'm sure) the wind is always going. Our long range guns have heavy high bc bullets in the majority of them.

This average hunter agrees ...

 

[ButterBean]

This average hunter agrees ...

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I've always used heavy for caliber. Never had an issue with them. I just bought a light weight hunting rifle though and was thinking about trying light weight monos out of it. I bought the rifle mainly for my 6 year old to use this deer season so the light weight monos might be a good option.

 

[codyadams]

I've always used heavy for caliber. Never had an issue with them. I just bought a light weight hunting rifle though and was thinking about trying light weight monos out of it. I bought the rifle mainly for my 6 year old to use this deer season so the light weight monos might be a good option.

I built my wife's rifle around a similar concept, it's a 7 Sherman Max with a 7.5 twist, but I will run monos in it, still not super light, more like a mid weight, between a 150 to 170, but they should still have less recoil than the 180 to 195 weight range

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I built my wife's rifle around a similar concept, it's a 7 Sherman Max with a 7.5 twist, but I will run monos in it, still not super light, more like a mid weight, between a 150 to 170, but they should still have less recoil than the 180 to 195 weight range

This one is chambered in 6.5 creed with a 22in barrel. Thought about running the 109AH out of it. Should be able to hit somewhere between 3200-3300 fps id think with the right powder. Or I'm just going to run 140s with rl-26 at 2900. Haven't decided yet.

 

[jarnold37]

This is exactly the way I think and shoot, 25-06AI with the 90 AH is unreal

My first rifle I started experimenting with different bullets and loads and the effect on deer was a 25-06. The 120 grain was a bit disappointing and I finally came to the conclusion that the 87 grain Sierra was by far for me,the best bullet in the 25-06. Shot many deer out to 445 yards and didnt seem to be very critical for shot placement. A 10 year old boy shot his first deer at 190 yards and got shot and killed it. Worse mess of any deer I have ever seen. Have moved up to bigger cartridges over the years. Even 338-378 shooting 300 grain. But mostly use 30-378 with 125 grain. Just like the 25-06 but a little bit more range with same effect.

 

[LRNut]

There are a lot of people around running the heaviest for caliber projectiles available, and at the same time never shoot an animal over 500-600 yards, with their average shot being sub 300 yards. These people may certainly benefit from light super fast monos, and even on the rare 500-600 yard shot, the difference in wind drift between the heavies and light monos is not a terribly big factor, usually within 1 MOAish @10mph, and generally still sufficient energy to do the job.

Now on the other hand, those that take average shots at 500 or more, and reach out to 1000 or more, will likely benefit from the heavier bullets. With a well developed load, well practiced shooter, well built rifle and a good rangefinder, the only component of the shot left at a guess is wind drift, and you will almost never find a light mono that will give more room for wind estimation error (ie less wind drift) than a heavier high bc bullet. Between me and the few people I hunted with last season, the average shot we took on 14 critters was right around 650 yards, and in Wyoming (as many other places I'm sure) the wind is always going. Our long range guns have heavy high bc bullets in the majority of them.

There are a couple exceptions with newer designs, you can almost have your cake and eat it too. I am going to be running the 250 Badlands SBDII 250 grain .338 bullet in my .338 Norma. It is pretty light for chambering, considering the common place here is the 300 Berger, so 50 grains lighter is significant. However, it is also listed at having a .410 G7, not far behind the .429 G7 of the 300 Berger, but with significantly more speed. With a lot of the new bullet selections available, there are several bullets that will satisfy both the b.c. freak, as well as the speed freak.

And I love it. Ha ha!

At my CO place, I shoot several times per day at gongs set up at 715 and 905 (I can easily go further); I just took at pop at 905 with one of my Lapuas. I agree with you: the wind is the reason you miss at ranges such as this. I used to be a big believer in speed over BC, but experience has caused to me think otherwise.

In terms of pure "hit ability," what are competition shooters using? I haven't heard of too many shooting light for caliber bullets. Charles Greer didn't use light for caliber bullets to shoot his 2.8125" 10 shot group last week; he used a 220 Berger. I don't think too many PRC shooters are shooting light bullets at blazing speeds.

IMO and experience, the ability to shoot every day at LR, under varying conditions and varying geography, is more important than speed or BC. It is why I built a place off-grid where I can shoot forever. Shooting at 8750 ft in CO and in the desert in Arizona gives me real life experience shooting at different elevations, at different angles, which would be tough to do east of the front range. I used to shoot LR in MN - my range was basically a road thru forest - not the greatest place to learn how to shoot in the wind.

Time to go pop off a 195 Berger at 905...wind is picking up.

 

[LRNut]

Just shot that 195 Berger (28 N) at 905. Figured wind was 7 mph to left (gauge was 2 to 5 mph). SIG said 1.75 W and 15.62 E. Mirage was fast and flat. Held 1.5 W 15.5 E, hit 1/2 MOA low with perfect windage. Score one for heavy bullets.

 

[parshal]

I go back and forth on this same topic. For the last few years I've been using 130 Sciroccos and 124 HH in my 6.5SS at 3250 - 3300. I've killed some animals with the Scirocco up to 350 yards but nothing with the Hammers. I've since worked up a load with the Berger 156 at 3060 'ish and will try that next year. I've simply not made up my mind on this.

 

[scope-eye]

I have always wondered about one thing when firing into a cross wind, So lets say I fire a round at a target into a 20mph cross wind at 2500fps depending on the weight and BC it will deviate a certain amount. What if I send the same bullet at 3500fps will the deviate the same amount, and then what if I send it 4500fps still the same amount? that makes no sense certainly a bullet "Charging the wind" will be less afected than "Sailing along" my take is something that spends less time in the wind will be less affected by the wind. the time of flight is so short how could it possibly, I have never taken into acount a cross wind when firing at a target and there never been a shot where I though, "I should have added some windage" so there has to be something to that since I rarely send anything less than 4000fps. Mind you this all happen's at less than 400yrd.

Dean

 

[shortmagshooter]

I've always used heavy for caliber. Never had an issue with them. I just bought a light weight hunting rifle though and was thinking about trying light weight monos out of it. I bought the rifle mainly for my 6 year old to use this deer season so the light weight monos might be a good option.

This was the exact reason I started using light mono bullets. 130gr in 300wsm @3450 in a tikka t3 lite for my daughter. She lives it so much she refuses to use anything else

 

[ButterBean]

At my CO place, I shoot several times per day at gongs set up at 715 and 905 (I can easily go further); I just took at pop at 905 with one of my Lapuas. I agree with you: the wind is the reason you miss at ranges such as this. I used to be a big believer in speed over BC, but experience has caused to me think otherwise.

In terms of pure "hit ability," what are competition shooters using? I haven't heard of too many shooting light for caliber bullets. Charles Greer didn't use light for caliber bullets to shoot his 2.8125" 10 shot group last week; he used a 220 Berger. I don't think too many PRC shooters are shooting light bullets at blazing speeds.

IMO and experience, the ability to shoot every day at LR, under varying conditions and varying geography, is more important than speed or BC. It is why I built a place off-grid where I can shoot forever. Shooting at 8750 ft in CO and in the desert in Arizona gives me real life experience shooting at different elevations, at different angles, which would be tough to do east of the front range. I used to shoot LR in MN - my range was basically a road thru forest - not the greatest place to learn how to shoot in the wind.

Time to go pop off a 195 Berger at 905...wind is picking up.

Just shot that 195 Berger (28 N) at 905. Figured wind was 7 mph to left (gauge was 2 to 5 mph). SIG said 1.75 W and 15.62 E. Mirage was fast and flat. Held 1.5 W 15.5 E, hit 1/2 MOA low with perfect windage. Score one for heavy bullets.

Whats the farthest kill shot you have ever made on an animal ?