Hard/impossible extraction Rem 700

[Bob Wright]

And to further add after giving the rifle with its newly fitted PTG bolt a good workout today back with the original load developed for the rifle by the original poster but using my "****** old dirty brass" as he put it. Everything extracted easily and perfectly 100% and accuracy was as usual stellar.

SO apparently the problem was not me or my reloading practices, my failure to clean the rifle properly or indeed or anything else I have done.

Maybe it was the shoddy series of attempted repairs he or his gunsmiths did to my bolt after the handle came loose the first time?? Something which he steadfastly totally refuses could be the issue in any way at all.

Up till now I have refrained from posting pictures but here is a picture of the Tig job and you can see the remains of the attempt to screw it on and.................if you are reading this KiwiGreg, you were given every chance to put it right!!
I'm still spewing that I had to pay a third party more money to fix it when you couldn't and would not admit you couldn't and that it was everyone elses fault.
Old bolt is hanging on my gunroom wall now to remind me some people cannot be trusted at their word.

Totally unacceptable tig weld. If you're a "welder" that should not require a "grinder". Definitely not a professional job...

 

[stangfish]

Edited: I apparently missed post 41. That is the crappiest workmanship I think I have ever seen.
The Smith is a Hack .

 

[codyadams]

You cant fix a situation where a customer leaves solvents and grit in the chamber. Educate him and continue to charge him for repair. Regardless if the rifle is only a tool to him you can't leave it in the yard for a month like a rake.

Refer to post #41.

 

[stangfish]

Refer to post #41.

Thanks for pointing out my over site Cody.

 

[codyadams]

Thanks for pointing out my over site Cody.

No problem! A lot of times it takes a while for the full story to come out in these posts. Who knows, there may still may be more information to come.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Reply from a local Forum

Mikee you were extremely happy with the rifle when it was returned to you last time.



The welding my subcontractor put on the bolt was done with the "heat turned up" this is why it looks as it does when the shroud is removed

He did this to ensure the handle stayed in place as it had been hit multiple times to open the bolt after brass had become stuck in the chamber

We know now that Remington's can have significant primary extraction issues, that was not the case when this rifle was built nearly six years ago now.

It is difficult to find anyone in this country who can re-time Remington bolts to maximise their primary extraction with the factory bolt handle

In this case the primary extraction was correct with the factory bolt handle & not the cause of the cases failing to extract

Your email said "when I tapped the bolt to free it the extractor let go of the case"

If a case is stuck in the rifle hard enough for the extractor to let go of the case by either camming over it or tearing the rim off no amount of primary extraction is going to remove it from the chamber

There are many reasons for a fired case to become stuck in a chamber

Before I sent the rifle away to have the handle tig welded on I tightened the screws up the previous contractor had put in the handle to try to keep in on as the factory solder would not hold.

After I cleaned & polished the chamber the bolt would happily extract the dirty fired brass supplied with the rifle from the chamber



The factory bolt handle cannot cope with the primary extraction being consistently used to free the case from the chamber, the metal is too soft & it doesn't have enough area or angle to accomplish that especially with a case design like the SAUM

It is unfortunate that I have never had an opportunity to preform a function test of the rifle by firing it since I sold it.

This situation would have been easily resolved by an email that went something like,

Hey Greg that rifle isn't working again for some reason, it was going great but now its not can you please have a look at it again for me.

As opposed to the ones I received

I had never before been threatened with the C.G.A. in over 25 years of running a business

"You can't please all the people all the time" & "The customer is always right"

Hopefully the rifle continues to function as it should as it has always shot extremely well

 

[STI]

So I think I will reply then leave it at that.
I offered to return the rifle and discuss the issue with the supplier and explain and demonstrate why I felt it was an issue with the primary extraction. As i said in my email if you can prove otherwise and how it is my fault then I would be happy to appologise both in person and on line if necessary. Still waiting for that reply. I gave up and sent the rifle for repair at my cost.

The facts which are irreutible are
You quoted, built and supplied me the rifle "as quoted"
Some time later there was and issue with extraction
Your guys tried to sort the issues multiple times and success was not long lasting.
The actual job of Tig welding was in my personal view not well completed and especially not on a custom gun

You personally did not do the jobs. I understand, but you supplied the rifle and then arranged to repair the poor extraction and therefore it rests with you
The rifle now has a new PTG bolt supplied fitted by a third party and works flawlessly which is great for me . (I still believe I should not have had to cover this cost.)
Multiple people have witnessed the rifle failt to extract when shooting so I do not believe its in my head.
If you had asked I would have brought in the reloaded ammo and been more than happy to have you test fire it to your hearts content and as I said if you can prove to me it is my fault or something I have done or not done then I would be happy to appologise both in person and on line if necessary.

I am also wondering a little why you managed to keep my text (yes it worked that day but not for long) and photo of my dirty brass for nearly 2 years. I guess you were not confident in your guys work and you might have more issues with the repair or me??

I still do not understand why it got to this point but probably because you totally refused to admit the issue could have been caused by your guys.


I would have much prefered to not get to this point ever in my dealings with you but here we both are!! So how do we fix it, you built me 2 other rifles and both were very good.

I guess the positive to come out of this if there is any, is I now fully understand M700 Extraction sequence and bolt timing.

 

[Privi457]

I keep reading these Remington 700 "extraction" and "bolt handle" horror stories and am left wondering how the 10s of 1000s 7XX rifles out there starting in 1948 have worked at all.

Probably owned 20 odd from 222 to a custom 400 H&H. Never was unable to extract a case, never had a bolt handle fall off. Of course I never tried to make my 722 300 Savage into a 700 Classic in 300 H&H. Wonder if that could have anything to do with it ?

May I suggest if you want to shoot dirty ammo, loaded hot, in dirty chambers and still be able to get them out, find an FN Mauser action. You can beat on, stand on, jump on the bolt handle and the empty will come out and the handle will remain intact.

The Germans in WW One worked in those conditions and their old GEW 98s did the job.

 

[okie22br]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Remington 700 as far as the action goes and I have built several custom barreled rifles off of the Remington 700 LA and SA with actions dating back to the early 1960's. It's just that when Remington released their 700 action with serial #'s that started with the RR prefix is when things got sketchy. Not all of them had the bolt handles tigged on in the proper location, which in turn caused the primary extraction issues. It's not about dirty brass or dirty chamber, hell I have brass that looks way worse than the OP's brass and still functions without a hiccup ( I use my stuff and don't care how shiny new it looks) You Just can't fix the primary extraction issues with these bolts unless you have someone that knows how to tig a bolt handle in the proper position.
I wouldn't even consider doing a custom build on an RR serial numbered action without purchasing a PTG bolt to start out. Save yourself or anyone else reading this the heartache when they can't get the case to extract.

 

[codyadams]

I keep reading these Remington 700 "extraction" and "bolt handle" horror stories and am left wondering how the 10s of 1000s 7XX rifles out there starting in 1948 have worked at all.

Probably owned 20 odd from 222 to a custom 400 H&H. Never was unable to extract a case, never had a bolt handle fall off. Of course I never tried to make my 722 300 Savage into a 700 Classic in 300 H&H. Wonder if that could have anything to do with it ?

May I suggest if you want to shoot dirty ammo, loaded hot, in dirty chambers and still be able to get them out, find an FN Mauser action. You can beat on, stand on, jump on the bolt handle and the empty will come out and the handle will remain intact.

The Germans in WW One worked in those conditions and their old GEW 98s did the job.

Because the problem didn't really arrise until the ones with the rr prefix in the serial number, last 5 years roughly I believe. Most the ones prior are fine or good enough on extraction. My rr prefix action I had showed extremly little primary extraction, I'm talkin maybe .020" of rearward movement. LRI fixed it up nice, nearly a quarter inch now, and looks fantastic.

 

[Privi457]

I'd sell it

 

[243winxb]

On forums, in general, its seems to be all about maximum velocity.

Matching factory velocities with hand loads may produce excess pressure.
Not a good thing .

Just saying.

 

[Privi457]

Agree, if you want a 4000 fps 6mm get a 244 H&H

 

[STI]

Well 6 months on and 487 rounds more thru the gun using same developed loads supplied with the gun and not one single failure to extract / difficult or hard extraction.

I guess all it needed was the bolt replaced by someone who knew what they were doing in the first place!!

Still waiting on an apology from Mr Supplier but I guess I will never see it