Hammer Hunters?

[FEENIX]

Correct. I'm not going to trash this thread

Agreed!

 

[bigngreen]

Every bullet will not make everyone happy and every bullet will have an issue from time to time. If ABLR works good run it but run heavy for elk, the ABLR and I did not mesh, absolutely hate that bullet, especially after running Bergers and going from one round single sledding to mag dumping rounds into elk, I think we made it on about 10-12 elk in and I had enough of them. But confidence trumps a lot especially in keeping round where they need to go.
The 7mm Hammer I've killed the most elk with is the 177, it's an elk thrashing machine, one of my favorite elk bullets over all.

 

[birddog 68]

No, the HH have also had issues reported but they have always gotten disregarded and chalked up to the wrong twist, wrong altitude, wrong velocity, wrong shot placement, wrong planet alignment, wrong bullet for the month, etc etc etc

View attachment 638799

Ok. Thanks for your correction. The thread I was looking at they had problems was with the HHT line of bullets.
That bullet in the picture looks like the last Berger that I shot a deer with.
There's so many choices for bullets nowadays and everyone has a choice. If you have a bad experience, pick another.
As I said earlier, confidence is #1

 

[Korhil78]

Just read this forum and in the last week there have been many reports about these pills. Even the guys that promoted them say they have problems. I'll trust them. I saw a video of the owner and I will not use or support them anymore. The op in post #21 has made his decision while the rest will continue to plead the case that they are great. Keep watching

So all you want are people posting who have had bad experiences with said bullet. People can't post what experiences they have had with the bullet unless it matches your agenda. At least it didn't take 30 pages to figure this out lol. Phew!

 

[Northkill]

I also have the 124g HHs (original)- never got around to loading yet. Looking forward to it, and also have an elk hunt. Either those or 147 eldm's.

We've had impressive results with the 124 HH...

 

[CRP003]

.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I learned this in Africa this summer. Everything shot in the shoulder with a strong penetrating bullet like the Hammer didn't go far. They were from a bullet maker in South Africa called Viper, which we're very similar to Hammer HH. The few lost animals in our party (none were mine) were all shot in the vitals but not on the shoulder. I still shot whitetail in the lungs, but anything tougher get it on the shoulder.

If you shoot mid high shoulder you'll most likely hit lungs also.

 

[Northkill]

Story.. then the question:

So a few years ago i ordered some 284 Cal-143g Hammer Hunter to try on my 7mm Mag
they worked tremendously, and very accurate!

So while deer hunting in VA i shot 3 bucks.

Hiwever each one ran like it was NOT hit. Tracked but no blood trail… nothing.
In the spring while working on stands and trapsing through woods… we found each of them!
I sooo hate to do this.

Also on TX i shot a large 10 point.. same thing. No blood!
However just as i was giving up searxh thinking i missed..i saw one drop of blood on the underside of a leaf
Way back in thicket was the deer. One small perfectly placed shot, no exit.

I have since switched back to Nosler 168 AccuBond Long Range.. and no issues and great accuracy. Long and short range

I still have about 150 loaded Hammers.

Now the question after the story: headed to MT this year elk hunting again in Sept. what can i expect if i decided to use the hammers?
Or stick with accubonds

Thanks

Pull what you got left and send them back to the manufacturer with your written experience. If you feel so inclined, it would at least give them the chance to evaluate metallurgy and other potential anomalies of said batch. An original purchase date or receipt would be helpful to them.

 

[Rifleman97]

Any idea about what your MV is with the 7mag? How far were your shots on the deer?

Tagging in just because I've been considering 67gr 257cal hammers in my 25-06 coyote rifle. Obviously that's not a 7mm nor a magnum but I'd like as much info as possible on the bullets in general. Do they have to be pushed fast to work correctly? Can they be too fast? I know very little about the hammers.

According to the guys at hammer "the faster you can push them the better they do." (Later in that podcast) "We also recommend fast twist not because they need it to be stable in the air, but because if they don't spin fast enough they can tumble in game. We haven't found a point where a barrel twist rate was too fast yet"

Paraphrasing slightly as I don't feel like finding those again in a 1 hour video, but it was pretty close to that. They went on to talk about how really fast twist on solids helps prevent tumbling that can happen even at lower velocity impacts, and how it will open up at 1800fps but it won't open completely, and they have yet to find a velocity that was too high for the bullet to open and function properly on the terminal side.

I've never used their bullets before, just parroting what the owners themselves claim about the bullets.

They said several times "we have never found an upper limit to speed impeding on function"

 

[Petey308]

Even the non-tipped Hammers have had their share of issues, like @adam32+P mentioned. Unfortunately, a lot of times when those results get shared, many other things get blamed rather than any potential inherent issue with the bullets.

There is an inherent issue though that sometimes gets exposed, sometimes not. The copper is indeed soft. The holes in them are pretty small in some varieties. If that opening gets compromised and closes over on itself, it tends not to open up as designed and a lot of times any good amount of wounding is a result of the bullet then tumbling. Steep angle shots can make this sort of thing occur, or glancing off of bone. It's not always from rough handling the bullets or during feeding from the mag to chamber, although those things can cause it as well.

There are ways to help keep the opening from closing in though, and that's things like filling the cavity with something with fluid dynamics that'll create a hydraulic effect of its own and won't compress and allow the tip to deform and close as easily. A good performing tip can do this too.

It's just unfortunate that many times when these discussions come up, many see it as people trying to bash on the bullet and they think people are exaggerating or making things up or being dramatic. It reality, it is indeed happening and can still happen and is worth discussing.

 

[Rosebud]

Must be the wrong twist rate on your barrel, bad shot placement, bad batch of copper, hit some brush with the bullet after the shot, or just a crazy conspiracy.

In all seriousness though, I definitely wouldn't feel confident in your position using them on your next hunt. You raise a valid concern and it would be nice to get some good answers.

I guess in the meantime you can work on providing answers to the questions that will likely come, about the things I mentioned above. What's your twist rate? What's your muzzle velocity? Any pictures of the animals afterwards?

I'm not picking on you Petey308 accidentally hit reply on your post. Can't get off of it! 120 HH 7-08 3160 or so FPS. 190 yards. Impact on left shoulder out just behind right shoulder, lungs turned to mush one petal through the heart.
Ran 35 yards and fell into a ten foot deep ditch, had to get the tractor to lift him out. Blood sposhes where he was standing, heavy blood trail.
This has been the norm for me with this load, I think you can over bullet so to speak with hammers. The long heavier bullets may need a little more meat to work better. JMO.

 

[Muddyboots]

Hammer Hunters are no different than any other hollow point bullet. Care must be utilized to protect the hollow point from damage. All hollow point bullet loaded round COAL's must allow for adequate magazine clearance to feed without damage to the hollow point. If a hollow point is damaged, accuracy and terminal performance will be affected.

This is not a unique circumstance and is common to all similar hollow point bullets. Reloaders must set their COAL's with adequate magazine COAL clearance to prevent damage on cycling.

This also applies to how you carry loaded rounds afield to protect the hollow points from damage. I carry Bergers and Hammers in a hard plastic MTM Ammo Wallet to protect the hollow points.

I learned the hard way with Bergers some years ago which led me to the MTM case as well.

MTM Ammo Wallet Rifle Ammo Carrier 9-Round 22-250 Remington to 375 H&H

CASE-GARD Rifle Ammo Wallets. Hunters and police snipers appreciate the shirt or jacket pocket availability of extra rounds. All 9 cartridges are held...

www.midwayusa.com

I am NOT stating this is the OP problem but if a loader is not aware of this, results can be affected if the hollow point tip is damaged. The perception then is the bullet design failed.

 

[Petey308]

According to the guys at hammer "the faster you can push them the better they do." (Later in that podcast) "We also recommend fast twist not because they need it to be stable in the air, but because if they don't spin fast enough they can tumble in game. We haven't found a point where a barrel twist rate was too fast yet"

Paraphrasing slightly as I don't feel like finding those again in a 1 hour video, but it was pretty close to that. They went on to talk about how really fast twist on solids helps prevent tumbling that can happen even at lower velocity impacts, and how it will open up at 1800fps but it won't open completely, and they have yet to find a velocity that was too high for the bullet to open and function properly on the terminal side.

I've never used their bullets before, just parroting what the owners themselves claim about the bullets.

They said several times "we have never found an upper limit to speed impeding on function"

Spinning them faster, whether they realize it or not, helps the petals peel back better/faster due to the increase in centrifugal force, even after impact. It's not all about stability after impact.

If the petals don't separate or separate evenly, tumbling is highly likely to occur, and if they don't separate or separate evenly, that's not really due to lack of stability, unless they impacted already at an angle from being unstable in flight.

 

[Northkill]

No, the HH have also had issues reported but they have always gotten disregarded and chalked up to the wrong twist, wrong altitude, wrong velocity, wrong shot placement, wrong planet alignment, wrong bullet for the month, etc etc etc

In my humble opinion, part of what happens here is reflective of human nature. The negative bias against (overt or subtle) something contributes to suspicion of any negative feedback about said product and perceived as active attempts to undermine it. Negative bias produces a self-fulfilling outcome while those engaged in the negative interest sit back and mock the "supporters" who come to defend. Let's not do this. It undermines objective truth-gathering. It happens on here.