Hammer hunter vs 215 berger

[bigngreen]

I understand that, my first animal with a Berger was a goat an I held back and was not impressed till I realized the only reason I recovered the animal with poor shot placement was because I was using a Berger, had I done that with the TSX I was shooting before or even the Hammers I shoot now I would have lost it. Berger's are there best bullet I've shot for recovering game when you screw the pooch!!
I've had some very large entrance wounds on goats but I think it has more to do with how light they are and the shock wave does something, I've shot goats and seen an 8 inch entrance but the same exact shot on an elk it's a nice pencil hole and a golf ball exit and carnage in the middle, just a theory but I don't think a goat can hold the pressure wave of a close hit and you get some kind of blow back, my 270 WSM with 140 Accubonds at 3350 fps would do the same thing to a goat with a huge entrance but an elk just a cal hole.

 

[Elkeater]

I understand that, my first animal with a Berger was a goat an I held back and was not impressed till I realized the only reason I recovered the animal with poor shot placement was because I was using a Berger, had I done that with the TSX I was shooting before or even the Hammers I shoot now I would have lost it. Berger's are there best bullet I've shot for recovering game when you screw the pooch!!
I've had some very large entrance wounds on goats but I think it has more to do with how light they are and the shock wave does something, I've shot goats and seen an 8 inch entrance but the same exact shot on an elk it's a nice pencil hole and a golf ball exit and carnage in the middle, just a theory but I don't think a goat can hold the pressure wave of a close hit and you get some kind of blow back, my 270 WSM with 140 Accubonds at 3350 fps would do the same thing to a goat with a huge entrance but an elk just a cal hole.

Now that is an interesting idea there. To be honest I don't kill a ton of goats. I shot one with a .308 and a 168 amax and one with a muzzleloader and a couple with my .300. So I probably don't have a large sample size as you.

 

[bigngreen]

We usually shoot a few a year here then it's been fun to hit Wyoming and get some there too. Good eating little buggers!! Antelope are kinda the pregame for elk hunting

 

[WYO300RUM]

posted 1:9 earlier

saw it later....

 

[WYO300RUM]

I've shot 15 lope bucks and at least 30 lope does in 3 different states with 7 rem mag, 300 rum, 243, 6.5 Creed. all 1 shot kills. Many different types of bullets. From 100 to 600 yards. Not hard to kill. All had one thing in common. They all taste good. Love them and elk best. Both totally different taste. I saved my buck lope points this year but have 3 doe lope tags. going to try 6.5 Creed and 6.5 PRC 124 Hammers on them and a doe deer tag. Most likely will use my 300 rum with a 181 Hammer on my 165 limited entry buck tag. First year for Hammers. Have always used 180 Barnes TTSX and Berger 185 VLD in 300. Last year used a handload with 143 ELDX in 6.5 Creed on 3 whitetail doe's from 300 to 442 yards. All DRT. Moving back in on Sept. 6th. Thank God.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I believe Elkeater is out trying to fill an early cow tag today so I'll chime in. On our antelope hunt last October, he shot a doe at 200 yards. The 215 Berger did not penetrate the chest cavity and instead just blew a large hole in the animal. It required a second shot to put it down. I know he has a post somewhere on here with a picture or two about the problem. Shot placement was just behind the shoulder.

I don't think that is the norm tho, I run them in my 300 ultra pretty hard and have never had them blow up behind the shoulder...

 

[MZmoose]

Tough to eat exploded goat.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

That's not a bullet problem especially on an antelope, I've seen it happen a couple times from two things, horrible fowling that dresses the jackets and very rough throat that again stresses the jacket. I've tried a lot of things to get a Berger to blow under normal operating procedures and I've never gotten it done, using a 22-250 and Berger varmint bullets at 3500 fps equaled perfect exits and dead on the spot goats even with shoulder hits, running 140 6.5s at 3230 fps and close range shoulder hits on elk equal dead elk in two steps and bullet getting full penetration, Alaskan bull moose frontal shot with 6.5 140, trashed lungs and fount the bullet in the flank, never seen a 215 not fully penetrate an elk shoulder. Never seen a surface wound at all and only 1 pencil.
From all the game I've opened up shot with a Berger and all that we shot if you have a blow up you've stressed the heck out of the jacket, if you pencil you've dropped to low in velocity or a tip is plugged, still we see much more consistent function from the Berger than other bullet, we still test every new bullet on game but so far back to Berger's with the exception of where we use the Hammers which we've been super pumped about but some of our shots we do need more BC.

I've seen a Berger blow up on an elk shoulder from 75 yards in a newer 308 win
Also have a friend that blew a 168 VLD up on a cow at 300 yards with a 7RM.
I have personally penciled a 168 through a whitetail at 330 from a 7 RM.
I'm with Elkeater, don't trust them.
Never tried the 215's on game though so I can't speak to that

 

[bigngreen]

I've seen a Berger blow up on an elk shoulder from 75 yards in a newer 308 win
Also have a friend that blew a 168 VLD up on a cow at 300 yards with a 7RM.
I have personally penciled a 168 through a whitetail at 330 from a 7 RM.
I'm with Elkeater, don't trust them.
Never tried the 215's on game though so I can't speak to that

Fine, that's why there's other bullets, for us the Berger was such a step up from Barnes and Accubonds it was unbelievable!!
The question begs to be asked though why be surprised that a bullet doesn't penetrate an elk shoulder, I've seen it proven sooo many time with bullets like Barnes and Accubonds in big 300s that you simple will not see 100% of those bullets penetrate an elk shoulder, if I shot an elk through the shoulder with a 300 gr 338 bullet and it stopped I'd be upset, anything 30 cal and down I wouldn't be surprised.
I almost trust a 230 Berger in a big 30 cal to do it every time cause I've seen it work so many times, I've never had a Berger stopped on an elk shoulder BUT it would not surprise me that it happens some day because of how many I have seen of every other make. I've seen my 308 with 215s penetrate some serious feet of game and it sounds like the 200.20x is just as good.
I have seen a 7 mag with a 168 come close to issues but we quickly realized the throat was a gravel pit and switched it to 168 Targets and it's been a Slayer since. We see more issues with the 7 mag on elk than almost any thing, guys really think their shooting a heavy magnum and reality is their shooting a glorified 270, there is no bullet I would shoot an elk in the shoulder with that I would not be ready immediately with a second round and not be excited about it actually getting through.
When cutting large numbers of elk with broken and healed shoulders is amazing, or the top of the spine blown of and healed, it's the most common wounding we see drag themselves down to the field with.

 

[HARPERC]

......The question begs to be asked though why be surprised that a bullet doesn't penetrate an elk shoulder, I've seen it proven sooo many time with bullets like Barnes and Accubonds in big 300s that you simple will not see 100% of those bullets penetrate an elk shoulder, if I shot an elk through the shoulder with a 300 gr 338 bullet and it stopped I'd be upset, anything 30 cal and down I wouldn't be surprised.
..............I almost trust a 230 Berger in a big 30 cal to do it every time cause I've seen it work so many times, I've never had a Berger stopped on an elk shoulder BUT it would not surprise me that it happens some day because of how many I have seen of every other make. I've seen my 308 with 215s penetrate some serious feet of game and it sounds like the 200.20x is just as good.
.............When cutting large numbers of elk with broken and healed shoulders is amazing, or the top of the spine blown of and healed, it's the most common wounding we see drag themselves down to the field with........

Marketing...The 180 Nosler Partition was supposed to have been the answer to moose shoulders...It's not.

Another tough on bullets shot is a big fall bear in a position that puts the arm alongside the chest. Archers do better because they wait for it to clear the way...Not mine but a reliable source, had the 230 Berger fail on this shot, .300 RUM, 100ish yards. Pretty much blew the arm off, but for a quick follow up could have been easily lost.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Seems like it cant be said enough. Regardless of what bullet you shoot, picking your shot and placing it well, will garner far more favorable results, than searching for a magic do-all bullet.

Ive killed a couple animals with one or two different bullets. If you try, you can make it work.

I like fragmenting bullets because i screw up pretty often, and on more than one occasion, ive gotten away with it.

 

[Msjwolfe]

I am interested in the hammers for my 300 win as well. I haven't shot them at all but I have ran the 215 hybrid. My ex wife shot her moose at 316 yds with the 215 out of a 30-378 at 3285 FPS it performed very well. I'm interested to see how people's performance with the hammers are at long range.

Steve is great to talk to, and has lots of information.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I am interested in the hammers for my 300 win as well. I haven't shot them at all but I have ran the 215 hybrid. My ex wife shot her moose at 316 yds with the 215 out of a 30-378 at 3285 FPS it performed very well. I'm interested to see how people's performance with the hammers are at long range.

Steve is great to talk to, and has lots of information.

This is my single (on game) experience with Hammers. I shot an average 6x6 bull elk in Idaho at 315yds. The 181 Hammer was fired from a 30 Nosler and hit the bull broadside, high in the lungs. Admittedly not the best shot. The bull took a step or two and dropped in 10 seconds. In another 10 seconds the bull went still. The kill was caught on video through a 60x spotting scope.

I've got Hammers loaded up for 3 different cartridges this year and am anxious to see how they perform on other animals. In a few short weeks I'll be headed back to Newfoundland for another moose hunt. I've got the 236HH bullets shooting very well at 400yds when fired from my 338RUM @ 3,050 ft/sec. With a little luck I should have some good terminal info on this bullet.

 

[Msjwolfe]

This is my single (on game) experience with Hammers. I shot an average 6x6 bull elk in Idaho at 315yds. The 181 Hammer was fired from a 30 Nosler and hit the bull broadside, high in the lungs. Admittedly not the best shot. The bull took a step or two and dropped in 10 seconds. In another 10 seconds the bull went still. The kill was caught on video through a 60x spotting scope.

I've got Hammers loaded up for 3 different cartridges this year and am anxious to see how they perform on other animals. In a few short weeks I'll be headed back to Newfoundland for another moose hunt. I've got the 236HH bullets shooting very well at 400yds when fired from my 338RUM @ 3,050 ft/sec. With a little luck I should have some good terminal info on this bullet.

Sweet thanks for the info!! I'm planning on rebuilding my 30-378 to 338 lapua improved and I'm interested in the hammers and well as the 300 gr bergers.

Are you liking the 30 nosler?