Hammer hunter vs 215 berger

[shooter7]

Do you happen to know how fast he was pushing the 215 on that antelope hit?

I believe he had a muzzle velocity of 2970 but I'm not certain. Hopefully he can chime in tonight with more detail.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I am a high vel guy. Not because our bullets need it to expand properly. Mostly for the point blank range capability and the shock that high vel impacts impart on the animal. We have no worries about bullet failure on high vel impact like needs to be paid attention to with lead core bullets.

I would also look at the 199 Hammer Hunter for what the op is doing. We just loaded them the other day in a 300 rum at 3300 fps with N570. This is easy 1200y medicine.

 

[Quicksilver338]

My issues with Bergers has been them penciling through the animal and not expanding / fragmenting. Anyone who has read any of Broz's threads on the Bergers he specifically states that he takes a pin drill to the tips of every bullet before loading them. I take this a step further and trim the meplats first and then pin drill the hollow points and problem fixed. I won't use them on game unless I do this.

I trimmed the meplats on my 300 otm bergers last year when I shot my bear at 500 yards out of a 338 Lapua. To say they expanded was an understatement! I could fit my fist through the offside ribs...bear died in 30 yards or less. I may try trimming the 215's slightly since a close range shot is always an option where I hunt. Steep country with opportunities to sneak in close.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I trimmed the meplats on my 300 otm bergers last year when I shot my bear at 500 yards out of a 338 Lapua. To say they expanded was an understatement! I could fit my fist through the offside ribs...bear died in 30 yards or less. I may try trimming the 215's slightly since a close range shot is always an option where I hunt. Steep country with opportunities to sneak in close.

I have never trimmed a 215 for hunting. I just check the tip with a safety pin to make sure there are no obstructions. Thats always worked for me.

 

[Window]

Anybody compare these 2 yet in a big 30 cal magnum? More specifically the 214 hammer hunter but open to any comparison next to a 215 berger. Got a norma improved and wondering if I'm crazy for wanting to try something other than the 215 berger. Ranges will be out to 800 yards as well. Thanks!

Anybody compare these 2 yet in a big 30 cal magnum? More specifically the 214 hammer hunter but open to any comparison next to a 215 berger. Got a norma improved and wondering if I'm crazy for wanting to try something other than the 215 berger. Ranges will be out to 800 yards as well. Thanks!

Anybody compare these 2 yet in a big 30 cal magnum? More specifically the 214 hammer hunter but open to any comparison next to a 215 berger. Got a norma improved and wondering if I'm crazy for wanting to try something other than the 215 berger. Ranges will be out to 800 yards as well. Thanks!

Hammers! I received the 181's from Steve yesterday for my 30-378. I've shot the 180 TSX for nearly 15 years with very good results for both accuracy and terminal performance on deer and elk. With all of the excellent reviews I decided to give the Hammer Hunters a go. So last night I loaded up 10 rounds for the Hammer Hunters with the same recipe I'd used for years with the 180 TSX's.. 102.5 H100, 3.788 OAL that measured 3.040 with the comparator. Tested them this morning with results that well EXCEEDED my expectations!! With a 100yd zero,I dialed in 10.75 MOA and shot a 3 shot group that measured was just over 2 inches at 700 yds. The group was 4 inches high so I dialed back a 1/4 MOA and shot the last seven rounds on a 10" steel plate with the same if not better results. Average FPS was 3290 with a 9fps variation with all 10 rounds. Needless to say, I've never had any bullet preform that well, (and I've shot them all) much less a hunting bullet. Can't wait to see how the do on deer here in Georgia this fall and elk and mule deer this November in Colorado. Thank you Steve and the rest of the Hammer team. I'm a first time customer and please keep up the great work!!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Hammers! I received the 181's from Steve yesterday for my 30-378. I've shot the 180 TSX for nearly 15 years with very good results for both accuracy and terminal performance on deer and elk. With all of the excellent reviews I decided to give the Hammer Hunters a go. So last night I loaded up 10 rounds for the Hammer Hunters with the same recipe I'd used for years with the 180 TSX's.. 102.5 H100, 3.788 OAL that measured 3.040 with the comparator. Tested them this morning with results that well EXCEEDED my expectations!! With a 100yd zero,I dialed in 10.75 MOA and shot a 3 shot group that measured was just over 2 inches at 700 yds. The group was 4 inches high so I dialed back a 1/4 MOA and shot the last seven rounds on a 10" steel plate with the same if not better results. Average FPS was 3290 with a 9fps variation with all 10 rounds. Needless to say, I've never had any bullet preform that well, (and I've shot them all) much less a hunting bullet. Can't wait to see how the do on deer here in Georgia this fall and elk and mule deer this November in Colorado. Thank you Steve and the rest of the Hammer team. I'm a first time customer and please keep up the great work!!

You know People are going to say you just got lucky, Don't you?

Hard to argue with that load. You might be leaving some vel on the table. I'm thinking you could have about 200 fps more.

 

[villagelightsmith]

Will an elk notice the difference at that range? I doubt it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Will an elk notice the difference at that range? I doubt it.

I can't help it. I wouldn't own a race car and use low octane in it either.

 

[Elkeater]

Do you happen to know how fast he was pushing the 215 on that antelope hit?

What issues did you experience with the 215's?

I believe Elkeater is out trying to fill an early cow tag today so I'll chime in. On our antelope hunt last October, he shot a doe at 200 yards. The 215 Berger did not penetrate the chest cavity and instead just blew a large hole in the animal. It required a second shot to put it down. I know he has a post somewhere on here with a picture or two about the problem. Shot placement was just behind the shoulder.

Back in from the woods. This is the entrance wound. And yes I double checked in the field. The antelope walked 20 yards and laid down. Obviously it wasn't feeling good but who knows how long it was going to take to die. I shot it through the head. Muzzle velocity was 2960fps. Range 200 yards.

 

[Window]

You know People are going to say you just got lucky, Don't you?

Hard to argue with that load. You might be leaving some vel on the table. I'm thinking you could have about 200 fps more.

I agree and nothing wrong with luck. But in all seriousness, conditions were perfect this morning and the remaining seven shots on the steel plate were just as impressive. Also, you are correct about greater velocity potential but several years ago, I had the same rifle fail because I was pushing it to the limit and I was lucky to escape injury. With this particular load, the velocity meets expectations and there's no strain on any of the components or the action and thankfully has plenty horsepower to get the job done on a elk in that 700yd range as long as the conditions favor. As for a little icing on the cake, any day now, I'll be getting back the very first Weatherby I bought in 1988 (270 mag MarkV laser mark) with a new 28" Krieger barrel, trued and bedded. Hoping the Hammers shoot we'll in it also!

 

[bigngreen]

I believe Elkeater is out trying to fill an early cow tag today so I'll chime in. On our antelope hunt last October, he shot a doe at 200 yards. The 215 Berger did not penetrate the chest cavity and instead just blew a large hole in the animal. It required a second shot to put it down. I know he has a post somewhere on here with a picture or two about the problem. Shot placement was just behind the shoulder.

That's not a bullet problem especially on an antelope, I've seen it happen a couple times from two things, horrible fowling that dresses the jackets and very rough throat that again stresses the jacket. I've tried a lot of things to get a Berger to blow under normal operating procedures and I've never gotten it done, using a 22-250 and Berger varmint bullets at 3500 fps equaled perfect exits and dead on the spot goats even with shoulder hits, running 140 6.5s at 3230 fps and close range shoulder hits on elk equal dead elk in two steps and bullet getting full penetration, Alaskan bull moose frontal shot with 6.5 140, trashed lungs and fount the bullet in the flank, never seen a 215 not fully penetrate an elk shoulder. Never seen a surface wound at all and only 1 pencil.
From all the game I've opened up shot with a Berger and all that we shot if you have a blow up you've stressed the heck out of the jacket, if you pencil you've dropped to low in velocity or a tip is plugged, still we see much more consistent function from the Berger than other bullet, we still test every new bullet on game but so far back to Berger's with the exception of where we use the Hammers which we've been super pumped about but some of our shots we do need more BC.

 

[bigngreen]

Back in from the woods. This is the entrance wound. And yes I double checked in the field. The antelope walked 20 yards and laid down. Obviously it wasn't feeling good but who knows how long it was going to take to die. I shot it through the head. Muzzle velocity was 2960fps. Range 200 yards.
View attachment 146545

I wouldn't expect much from shot placement that low especially on a goat!!

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Back in from the woods. This is the entrance wound. And yes I double checked in the field. The antelope walked 20 yards and laid down. Obviously it wasn't feeling good but who knows how long it was going to take to die. I shot it through the head. Muzzle velocity was 2960fps. Range 200 yards.
View attachment 146545

That shot is a little low and a hair back, but definitely a much larger entrance that what im used to seeing from 215's. That looks a bit larger than what my exit wounds typically look like. I would consider a heavier bullet if i saw that again.

If that were a controlled expansion bullet, im betting your second shot wouldnt of been in the head.

 

[Elkeater]

I wouldn't expect much from shot placement that low especially on a goat!!

It's a little low. I was staying off the shoulder. But if that's what happens when the shot isn't absolutely perfect and honestly that impact is only an 1" or so lower than I wanted it then bergers aren't for me. I don't have any issue with other folks using them. If that's what works for you then great. The bergers are accurate. But for me I just can't trust them. And that's really all it comes down to.

Edit: just adding the low shot placement was me trying to stay away from the back straps. I didn't want fragments in them.