Hammer bullets WTH

[Petey308]

In production the tip is the same, they've played with them in testing, there was a big freak out when a color was changed so they tested them and they test the same.

I would bet the prototype bullet tip will be very similar to what's seen, they've been shooting them a year, they shot excellent this spring the ones I was able to shoot.

Shot excellent in what matter?

 

[Window]

I just thought I'd stomp the nest. I'm in Mexico mule deer hunting and my 7 prc is loaded with 170 hht . I just thought I'd try them being I have never killed anything with hammer bullets and this will be my last time ever shooting these things! Shot a buck at 318 had to shoot him twice and could have used another. Shot buck at 785 he needed another bullet is running 3220 FPS!
Going back to my Berger's and Barnes !
Yes all well placed shots! Just my personal opinion I'm out!

I'm not judging because I've never met you but you sound like a Karen. There was a guy a couple of years ago who did a test in gel with heavy for caliber Hammers in gel with unstable spin rates and blasted the company. I fully apologize if I'm wrong,

 

[Petey308]

I'm not judging because I've never met you but you sound like a Karen. There was a guy a couple of years ago who did a test in gel with heavy for caliber Hammers in gel with unstable spin rates and blasted the company. I fully apologize if I'm wrong,

If you're referring to what I think you are, was it ever proven the stability was wrong? I only recall that being pushed as speculation.

If it's not the same guy I'm thinking of, I'd be interested to see that and how it was determined the stability was wrong, at least for my own research on this subject.

The OP also said this was his personal opinion and I never took it as him bashing the company. He was giving his experience and what he decided to do moving forward as a result. I would take it easy with the names and accusations.

 

[Petey308]

I'm not judging because I've never met you but you sound like a Karen. There was a guy a couple of years ago who did a test in gel with heavy for caliber Hammers in gel with unstable spin rates and blasted the company. I fully apologize if I'm wrong,

This also reminds me of a potential case of "Primacy Effect". When we speculate things like that (stability was off in his tests), and we make the claim before the facts come out, it sometimes is too late. We still believe what we read, heard, or saw first and that's the truth we hold onto.

See the quote below on a different thread talking about this sort of thing.

Something I meant to add to this writeup, but forgot, as I missed it in my drafts I had between my phone and computer as I worked on it, is a bit on "Primacy Effect". It definitely ties in well to how we perceive the truth initially. It's also hugely outside of just social media too and we see it with mainstream media everyday.


The Primacy Effect

The primacy effect is a psychological phenomenon where people tend to remember, prioritize, or give more weight to the first piece of information they receive over information they encounter later. It's particularly influential in forming opinions, judgments, or decisions.

How the Primacy Effect Works:

• When we hear or see something for the first time, our brains treat it as foundational information. It becomes a reference point for evaluating everything that follows.

• If conflicting information arises later, it has a harder time overturning that initial impression because the first piece of information is often seen as more credible or trustworthy.

Real-Life Examples:

1. News and Media: When people hear a claim from the first news source they encounter, they're more likely to believe it—even if corrected information emerges later.

2. Interpersonal Relationships: First impressions often dominate how people view someone, even if later behavior contradicts that initial impression.

3. Marketing: Brands aim to make a strong first impression because the primacy effect means customers are likely to associate their first experience with the brand's overall quality.


The primacy effect explains the saying "the first lie often becomes the truth." People naturally latch onto the first narrative they hear and, due to cognitive biases, are less likely to critically evaluate or accept contradicting evidence later. That's why misinformation, especially when it's the first to spread, can be so powerful—it takes advantage of our tendency to trust the first story.

Again, if you're referring to a completely different situation, I'd like to see that one and see how those tests went and what good info there might be to extrapolate from it.

 

[cohunt]

In production the tip is the same, they've played with them in testing, there was a big freak out when a color was changed so they tested them and they test the same.

I would bet the prototype bullet tip will be very similar to what's seen, they've been shooting them a year, they shot excellent this spring the ones I was able to shoot.

But Fordy said he had a prototype tip that was different than the production tips--- that is what we are referring to----- is Fordy wrong? Are the tips he tested the same as the production tips?

 

[snox801]

I'm not asking for the manufacture process. Asking if
1- is there a QC process for incoming raw stock?
2- is it tested for hardness/softness
3- are samples (if taken) all sizes of stock
4- are samples ( if taken) random or set number before manufacture of the the product takes place.

It's not top secret industry information!
It's a basic concept to understand and know about a process that can be used and that "basic" information can be communicated to the consumers.

Like I stated. They must have something. I'm r why would they ask for someone to drive a trailer full of return copper back that didn't meet the specs? I'm sure you got a long way with Berger, Barnes, and cutting edge.

I would find it hard to believe that any of those companies didn't have a standard and way to test. They probably are just not needing or wanting to waste a bunch of time answering questions that at the end of the day won't matter to sales. Or they hire one more employee to deal with that stuff and again everyone complains about prices being more.

 

[bigngreen]

But Fordy said he had a prototype tip that was different than the production tips--- that is what we are referring to----- is Fordy wrong? Are the tips he tested the same as the production tips?

Maybe he did but the OP has production bullets which is what is relevant, the tips I've always shot, even preproduction are the same as now, that's all I can speak to.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The tip material has not changed other than color.

 

[Joefrazell]

expecting a copper to kill like a cup and core is setting yourself up for disappointment and so I choose the latter.

 

[Petey308]

The tip material has not changed other than color.

Now that you're here, anything else to add to the thread that could be insightful? I know not much detail was given in the OP, unfortunately.

 

[Petey308]

The tip material has not changed other than color.

Has the profile changed or the way the tips engage and interact with the rest of the bullet? I have some of the original HHT's. Perhaps I need to get some of the latest ones to compare.

 

[med358-boise]

I am just hung up on "Just nothing fell dead like I'm use to." What does that mean? It didn't drop in its tracks? It staggered around in a 5, 10, or 15 yard circle so he shot again and it didn't fall down for another 7 seconds?

Her is a buck I shot. I was about 30 yards away when the filming started. Took me a moment to set up and get steady and by that time the buck started to walk away. I distinctly remember that based on its limp and that it walked slightly uphill, that I thought I shot low and broke the near side leg before he fell down. But the necropsy and film revealed a good shot and I broke the offside shoulder. Both lungs and one shoulder damaged. The buck moved for 25 seconds, he did not fall dead. I have no expectations of "animal falling dead" a certain way.

Animals are wild things sometimes full of adrenaline sometimes not. Humans can be also. Read the story of Bobby Halpern who was shot 5 times in 1978.

 

[buckbrush]

Hammer's 170gr HHT requires a minimum of 1:8" twist rate for terminal stability.....NOT ballistic stability. You could very well have a perfectly stable projectile punching ragged holes, but that in no way means it's terminally stable as designed by the manufacturer.

I do see, in looking at Browning rifles as an example, their X-Bolt 2 Medallion has a 1:9.5" twist in 7mm PRC while their Mountain Pro shows 1:8" twist in 7 PRC. Even if the rifle/barrel manufacturer states 1:8" twist......and it's really 1:8.25" twist, that 170gr HHT may very well not have the terminal performance as designed by Hammer.

So again, I ask what is the twist rate of the barrel you are using? Did you manually check it to ensure it has the minimum required twist rate for that 170gr Hammer HHT?

.

At his velocity, 8 vs 8.25 twist is like a 3% variation in bullet rpm. Seems like a precarious margin of error.

 

[Petey308]

At his velocity, 8 vs 8.25 twist is like a 3% variation in bullet rpm. Seems like a precarious margin of error.

That's a point I was trying to make too. If the bullet is truly that particular in order to perform well terminally, I'm not so sure its a great bullet. I think there's more going on, and pointing at twist rate and stability is pointing to the wrong thing in my opinion, and I suspect is not the issue in this particular situation. Is it perhaps compounding with other things? Perhaps, but I really don't think its THE issue.