Hammer bullets stabilization

[Wedgy]

In other words, not only is a heavy copper bullet not needed, but it, is counter-productive by reducing bullet speed.

This is not true for long range as there is a point where the heavier bullets exceed the velocity and energy of the lighter weight bullet in addition to having less wind drift.
For example I run the 143 hammer at ~3,610fps in my 7 RUM or the 177 at ~3,170 and at 1,000 yards the 143 is at 1,650 fps with 870 ft/lb of energy
while the 177 is at 1,782 fps with 1,250 ft/lb of energy
But inside 600 yards the 143 is faster and flatter shooting although it gives up a little energy. If you are shooting inside 600 yards I would run the shock hammers because the lower BC doesn't matter very much and the terminal performance is much more dramatic. I set up my buddy's 300 RUM with the 181 shock hammer, his guide was impressed how fast it dropped the bull.

 

[shinbone]

Good points on the wind drift and the longer ranges - heavier would be better for those aspects.

I would say for sub-500 yd ranges, though, the lighter copper bullets would be a better choice than the heavier copper bullets.

 

[Hatrick]

Wedgy, What twist was your buddy's 300 rum?
Thanks, Tom

 

[Wedgy]

Wedgy, What twist was your buddy's 300 rum?
Thanks, Tom

His is a 10 twist Sendero

 

[ButterBean]

This is not true for long range as there is a point where the heavier bullets exceed the velocity and energy of the lighter weight bullet in addition to having less wind drift.
For example I run the 143 hammer at ~3,610fps in my 7 RUM or the 177 at ~3,170 and at 1,000 yards the 143 is at 1,650 fps with 870 ft/lb of energy
while the 177 is at 1,782 fps with 1,250 ft/lb of energy
But inside 600 yards the 143 is faster and flatter shooting although it gives up a little energy. If you are shooting inside 600 yards I would run the shock hammers because the lower BC doesn't matter very much and the terminal performance is much more dramatic. I set up my buddy's 300 RUM with the 181 shock hammer, his guide was impressed how fast it dropped the bull.

We Just had this discussion on the hammer site and yes while BC does affect the Bullet but it can all be accounted for, As for the energy numbers, this is something that has puzzled me wit the Hammers so much that I had to go back to school on the subject, I personally don't believe the energy numbers as they do not account for "Impact Velocity" my case in point I shot my 308 178 ELDX and Ole Pokey with the 90g AH's at the 500 yard gong, 308@ 1952fps and 1506# of energy and the 25cal 90G@2235fps and 919# of energy per two different apps, The 308 splashed and made a grey mark and the Hammers are buried in the plate 1/4", I know the bullet construction comes in to play but the visible results are hard to ignore

 

[Wedgy]

case in point I shot my 308 178 ELDX and Ole Pokey with the 90g AH's at the 500 yard gong, 308@ 1952fps and 1506# of energy and the 25cal 90G@2235fps and 919# of energy per two different apps, The 308 splashed and made a grey mark and the Hammers are buried in the plate 1/4", I know the bullet construction comes in to play but the visible results are hard to ignore

The copper is harder than the lead so it penetrates the steel. As far as energy dump goes I guess it really doesn't dump all of the energy in the animal if the bullet goes thru, and that depends on the bullet and what it hits. From your results I would guess that the eldx would not have an exit on an elk while the hammer would. I am still learning but I feel that you cannot over spin a mono for hunting performance as it won't vaporize in mid air like a lead bullet can, but the added spin will produce greater on axis penetration and bullet expansion. Try standing a bullets on its tip, it's more or less impossible but we expect it to fly tip first which is the most unstable position. It wants to yaw over and fly base first where it would be way more stable but the spin is keeping it tip first and the more stable it is the more it will keep going straight when it hits the animal. Longer VLD's have more distance between the center of gravity and the center of pressure requiring more spin to keep them stable compared to a wad cutter style bullet.

 

[ButterBean]

The copper is harder than the lead so it penetrates the steel. As far as energy dump goes I guess it really doesn't dump all of the energy in the animal if the bullet goes thru, and that depends on the bullet and what it hits. From your results I would guess that the eldx would not have an exit on an elk while the hammer would. I am still learning but I feel that you cannot over spin a mono for hunting performance as it won't vaporize in mid air like a lead bullet can, but the added spin will produce greater on axis penetration and bullet expansion. Try standing a bullets on its tip, it's more or less impossible but we expect it to fly tip first which is the most unstable position. It wants to yaw over and fly base first where it would be way more stable but the spin is keeping it tip first and the more stable it is the more it will keep going straight when it hits the animal. Longer VLD's have more distance between the center of gravity and the center of pressure requiring more spin to keep them stable compared to a wad cutter style bullet.View attachment 239622

I agree

 

[Jon Copple]

Ok so many of us are running hammers at this point. I'm running the 199 hammer hunter in my long range 8 twist .300 win mag, a 152 hammer hunter in my light weight 10 twist .300 win mag, the 64gr hammer hunter in my 8 twist 5.56AR, and the 70gr hammer hunter in my kids 9 twist .243.

I know some folks are trying to run hammers in minimum twist barrels and some are having issues with key holes. For reference I figured I'd put up a pic for reference on how long these hammers really are. Hopefully someone might find this helpful when trying to decide on whether or not their rifle will stabilize the hammer they want to run.

Left to right is a 180 accubond, 200 accubond, 181 Hammer Hunter, 215 Berger hybrid, 199 Hammer Hunter, 214 Hammer Hunter.
View attachment 186421

@Elkeater, what powder type and grain weight combos did you test or use for the 199 and 212 grain HH's? I just got some of these to test in my 8" twist 300 wing mag and am looking for some tested load data now.

 

[Elkeater]

@Elkeater, what powder type and grain weight combos did you test or use for the 199 and 212 grain HH's? I just got some of these to test in my 8" twist 300 wing mag and am looking for some tested load data now.

H1000 all the way. Basically just used Nosler data as a starting point.

 

[CBH Australia]

I'm running the 124HH out of my 10 twist 300 WSM

Hows that working for you?
Can we get a bit more detail?

I have shot them in a 10 twist 300 winmag and they shoot very well. As long as it is a true 10 twist, I would give it a go.

Shot them in a 1-10.25 308 win and they did not stabilize. That is in Virginia-close to sea level.

Does the muzzle velocity make a difference here? I'm sure the .300wm will start faster.

I found some hammers available in Australia. Looking at the pictures @Elkeater put up these are long. That might be a problem in my Tikkas with short magazine lengths.

But I can try the lighter end of the spectrum

 

[HARPERC]

Hows that working for you?
Can we get a bit more detail?

Does the muzzle velocity make a difference here? I'm sure the .300wm will start faster.

I found some hammers available in Australia. Looking at the pictures @Elkeater put up these are long. That might be a problem in my Tikkas with short magazine lengths.

But I can try the lighter end of the spectrum

Devils always in the details. I'm guessing from several thousand miles out is a detail, so stay with me If I miss.

You have a Tikka .300 Winchester Magnum. Magazine length of those is given, at 3.36, and twist rate is given at 1-11".

A higher muzzle velocity helps only a little in bullet stabilization, twist is the primary factor. Google JBM stability calculator, and for free you can plug in all the variables you wish.

We can get around magazine length by seating deeper, but give up a little case capacity.

The Hammer product page will give you minimum twist recommendations per bullet. I stay just a little more conservative than that.

I'm not sure what's available to you, but the lighter .308 bullets are showing up well, in on game use in Australia. Quite a few animals taken this last week.

I think the 152 Hammer Hunter would be a great choice given the above. The 124's are punching way out of their weight class as well.

I may have missed completely, but that's my look. Hopefully, availability improves, I know it's something being worked on.

 

[northhunter]

I can't wait to test my 123AH on game this fall. My prc is dialed in and I'm itching to get out.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I have a load with the 152 in my 300 WM. It is a Ruger with a shorter mag box as well. I load them to 3.35" to fit and feet reliably and they are pushing 3148 FPS with very slow but consistent H4831sc. Good for anything far enough out I should be shooting in my neck of the woods.

 

[isaaccarlson]

We're kind of a measuring clan, new to me since playing with Hammer's. My .375 custom barrel was supposed to be 1-10"-it's 1-11".

How many are actually measuring twist?

I would have a talk with the person who made it. That's a pile of bullets you can't shoot when you should have.