I was thinking 110 in the 260Rem, 150 in the 308 and then 165 on 300 WM.
Mainly hunting deer, but black bear, sheep or goat and atleast 1 elk hunt are all on the list this year.
Hammer Bullets - Different way of thinking????
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I was thinking 110 in the 260Rem, 150 in the 308 and then 165 on 300 WM.
Mainly hunting deer, but black bear, sheep or goat and atleast 1 elk hunt are all on the list this year.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
All workable choices.
I use the 110 Hammer in a .260 and many whitetails later I can attest to its terminal performance ( and I was a Accubond Addict). More DRT drops than I have had with any other bullet.
In my Savage 22" barrel speeds bumping 3,180 - 3,200.
Norma Brass
215 Primer
47gr H4350 (yes it will fit)
COAL @ 2.80" and never moved it.
Its a perfect length and length to ogive to so when seated at 2.80" the boat tail start area at base of bullet is dead on the neck shoulder junction and that gave me 50 thou off lands. Shoots excellent right there for me. At 500 yds drop is 6.9 MOA and groups at 2-3" on average.
In my Savage 22" barrel speeds bumping 3,180 - 3,200.
Norma Brass
215 Primer
47gr H4350 (yes it will fit)
COAL @ 2.80" and never moved it.
Its a perfect length and length to ogive to so when seated at 2.80" the boat tail start area at base of bullet is dead on the neck shoulder junction and that gave me 50 thou off lands. Shoots excellent right there for me. At 500 yds drop is 6.9 MOA and groups at 2-3" on average.
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memtb
Well-Known Member
tdot, I think that I'm in the minority here, but, I prefer to use mono's that are equal to the typically accepted "normal" weight for a cup and core bullet! While you may gain an increase in initial velocity, it will quickly be lost at longer ranges to to a reduction in BC. Also, with the less mass of the lighter bullet....penetration may be compromised! I'm not yet be indoctrinated into the "high velocity" cult. My opinion, if you want "X" velocity from "X" caliber, .....use a bigger case and burn more powder! Do not go to a light for caliber bullet! memtb
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D
Deleted member 107796
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I would agree with the comment about the lower BC being a factor at very high distances, +500 yards IMO, but I have yet to see expansion issues within that distance with monos that are 10-20gn less than cored bullets. I think that is supported by quite a bit of experience in the field. I would agree though, that I do like to match weights, if possible.
I've been using Barnes Bullets for nearly 30 years....started with the original Barnes X.....and have always gone down at least one size from traditional bullets. I believe the increased velocity is a Big Factor in mono bullet performance. I'm now changing most of my rifles over to Hammers and will continue to select a size smaller......so far I'm loading 98 Sledge Hammers in my 25-06 & 257 Roberts; 121 Heavy Hammers in 264 Wm; 131 Hammer Hunters in 280 AI; 124 Hammer Hunters in 6.5CM; and 143 Hammer Hunters in 280 Remington!
Hespco
Well-Known Member
I personally have never user a Hammer. Ever since Barnes brought out the original "X" bullet I have been using the 120gr X & now the 120 TSX. Loaded in my 6.5x308 wildcat ( before 260 R came out ) Savage 260 Rem & 6.5x55 , 6.5-06 have all taken elk each year with complete success. Have never lost an elk or recovered one of these bullets. They have given excellent accuracy in all my rifles . Many times they have had to penetrate heavy bone & have never failed to do so. A friend who shoots a 308 uses the Barnes 150gr mono & takes elk cleanly with complete penetration. When I say complete penetration I don't mean just thru the rib cage, but thru thick muscle & heavy bone on angled shots. We seem to get far more angled shots than broad side. By far over the years our shots have been 200 yds & under. Only a hand full beyond this. Longest shot I recall was 347 yds. No problem.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Physical bullet size weight for weight the pure copper bullets will be bigger than the lead core bullets. I think this plays into the on game performance of the lighter mono's. I think the idea that copper bullets need more speed is due to Barnes bullets being hard and needing more speed to open quickly. Our goal when we started Hammer Bullets was to make a bullet that would work properly from high to low vel impacts. Terminal performance was, and still is, our top priority. This goal was more difficult that we thought it would be. We ordered and recycled a lot of copper in our search for copper that would reliably do what we expected our bullets to do. It did not take us long to figure out why other bullets, that we had used before we started making bullets, made us feel like something was missing. Just getting a good quality pure copper was not the answer. When we found the copper that we use now, everything changed.
As far as using heavy or light for caliber, there isn't a wrong answer. As long as bullets are properly stabilized, terminal performance will be good. I personally like high vel. When you are using a bullet that can handle high vel impacts and retain proper weight, there isn't a down side. Yesterday @TXAoudadKlr took a big bull water buffalo that had gone rogue and needed to be culled. He use our 181g Hammer Hunter. Not the typical dangerous game bullet that would normally be called upon for this task. He shot the bull through the shoulders at under 100y from a 30 AX with a muzzle vel of 3490 fps. At that kind of vel his rifle/bullet combo is a solid 1000y plus hunting combo that is good to go everywhere in between. Most lead core bullets are going to have difficulty surviving this launch speed, let alone hold together to get through a water buffalo at 80y. This bull only went 30y and laid down. The land owner and the guide both said they had not seen one die that quickly. The fact that the Hammer Hunter shed it's nose rapidly ensured that it would fully penetrate the buffalo, even after breaking big bones. He posted pics of entrance and exit holes from the inside of the buffalo. You can see exit holes from the retained shank and a petal. If the bullet had retained the petals to make the pretty, flower looking bullets like Barnes, I would venture to say that the outcome on this buffalo would have been poor. A bullet like that does not penetrate deep enough fast enough to create the wound channel needed for fast kills. They simply slow down too quickly and have difficulty tracking straight after impact.
Speed kills when used properly. So yes there is a new way of thinking.
As far as using heavy or light for caliber, there isn't a wrong answer. As long as bullets are properly stabilized, terminal performance will be good. I personally like high vel. When you are using a bullet that can handle high vel impacts and retain proper weight, there isn't a down side. Yesterday @TXAoudadKlr took a big bull water buffalo that had gone rogue and needed to be culled. He use our 181g Hammer Hunter. Not the typical dangerous game bullet that would normally be called upon for this task. He shot the bull through the shoulders at under 100y from a 30 AX with a muzzle vel of 3490 fps. At that kind of vel his rifle/bullet combo is a solid 1000y plus hunting combo that is good to go everywhere in between. Most lead core bullets are going to have difficulty surviving this launch speed, let alone hold together to get through a water buffalo at 80y. This bull only went 30y and laid down. The land owner and the guide both said they had not seen one die that quickly. The fact that the Hammer Hunter shed it's nose rapidly ensured that it would fully penetrate the buffalo, even after breaking big bones. He posted pics of entrance and exit holes from the inside of the buffalo. You can see exit holes from the retained shank and a petal. If the bullet had retained the petals to make the pretty, flower looking bullets like Barnes, I would venture to say that the outcome on this buffalo would have been poor. A bullet like that does not penetrate deep enough fast enough to create the wound channel needed for fast kills. They simply slow down too quickly and have difficulty tracking straight after impact.
Speed kills when used properly. So yes there is a new way of thinking.
Memtb, I hear you loud and clear. It was a gut wrenching experience to step down in weight shooting Barnes bullets. I grew up hunting with a 30-06 shooting 180gr Remington Core-Lokt and a 12 ga with old school rifled slugs Took a small pile of whitetails back east before moving out west.
When I started working with monos I tried Barnes, Noslers, and Hornady. Had lots of trouble getting heavy and even some standard weight bullets to stabilize with rifles with standard twist rates. I also shot lots of water jugs and wet newspaper at various ranges to judge expansion. After lots of testing I felt pretty good with my choice including limiting myself to 400 yards max distance on game. Still I was glad a buddy had his 300 Win with Noslers Partitions in case things went sideways that first time.
Shooting technologies are really advancing fast these days, copper bullets, fast twist rifles, synthetic stocks of all kinds, high mag optics, fragmenting bullets, bonded bullets, tipped bullets, and more new cartridges than a person can keep up with. Who'd have thought 25 years ago?
I think we as a sport are still working out the right combination of rifle and bullet specs for optimal performance with copper bullets. That was a major part of my decision to build a 280AI that will throw moderate to heavy copper bullets. I'm still mulling over what I want but think 1:8 twist and maybe a custom throat to accommodate the long copper bullets.
Hammer bullets are of interest to me as much for the copper alloy they use as seating depth not being a major hurdle. As RockyMtnMT says Barnes are pretty hard bullets that need speed to function well. My own experiences agree with that. I always wished Barnes were a bit softer metal.
Guess I need to place an order soon and spend time in the reloading room and range.
Thanks
When I started working with monos I tried Barnes, Noslers, and Hornady. Had lots of trouble getting heavy and even some standard weight bullets to stabilize with rifles with standard twist rates. I also shot lots of water jugs and wet newspaper at various ranges to judge expansion. After lots of testing I felt pretty good with my choice including limiting myself to 400 yards max distance on game. Still I was glad a buddy had his 300 Win with Noslers Partitions in case things went sideways that first time.
Shooting technologies are really advancing fast these days, copper bullets, fast twist rifles, synthetic stocks of all kinds, high mag optics, fragmenting bullets, bonded bullets, tipped bullets, and more new cartridges than a person can keep up with. Who'd have thought 25 years ago?
I think we as a sport are still working out the right combination of rifle and bullet specs for optimal performance with copper bullets. That was a major part of my decision to build a 280AI that will throw moderate to heavy copper bullets. I'm still mulling over what I want but think 1:8 twist and maybe a custom throat to accommodate the long copper bullets.
Hammer bullets are of interest to me as much for the copper alloy they use as seating depth not being a major hurdle. As RockyMtnMT says Barnes are pretty hard bullets that need speed to function well. My own experiences agree with that. I always wished Barnes were a bit softer metal.
Guess I need to place an order soon and spend time in the reloading room and range.
Thanks
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
A bit different in thinking for me in the sense of integrating the newer technologies with our older rifles!
We have the cases, actions, and barrels available to exploit the bullets any way we "PREFER". We have to have velocity for anything to move-we have to have mass for it to have much meaning.
There is a bit of a trade off at the upper ends of a little more weight, or a little more speed that becomes how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and turn what once may have been deemed a stunt into a reasonable choice.
I just wish I had 30 years back to take full advantage of them!
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
Ive shot Barnes and CEB bullets out of my 458 socom for several years. There's no comparison in lethality of the non conventional design of a CEB or hammer over the Barnes style monos.
My 300's power is greatly more expressive on smaller game like deer now with the 181's than it was with the 200gr accubond I used for some time. Unless it hit bone it would sail right through well little reaction, not the case with the hammer.
My 300's power is greatly more expressive on smaller game like deer now with the 181's than it was with the 200gr accubond I used for some time. Unless it hit bone it would sail right through well little reaction, not the case with the hammer.
