Hammer 22 Creedmoor Testing

[orkan]

Would you attribute this to hydrostatic shock more so than wound channel/tissue damage?

I couldn't say. I can't watch what the bullet is doing once it gets inside the fur... so I don't know what's happening in there. I just see the aftermath when I open them up. Destruction. So I don't know if its the heavy per cal bullets tumbling when hit, raw shock from velocity, or what. All I know is that a .22 cal bullet moving out fast which is heavy per cal absolutely crushes deer.

I do believe velocity plays a big factor... because a .223rem in a similar situation with similar bullets typically results in an animal running off more often than not. It is dead on its feet, but it's running none the less. Where as a creedmoor carries and delivers massive energy in comparison. At 300yds with an 80gr bullet, nearly an additional 600 ft/lbs over what I mentioned above in the 52gr calculation.

So it will be interesting to see what the 52gr does to a deer when its hitting with considerably less energy, but nearly equal velocity. The impact velocity of a berger 80 at 300yds is roughly 2975 fps. While the impact velocity at the same distance for the 52HH is 2875 fps. So that definitely tracks with the energy bleed. Light bullets just pull the parachute and deploy all flaps and drag fins and start heading for the dirt after 300, in my experience. They just don't have the BC.

The 52HH is pulling an approximate G1 of .220, based on the data from their website. Conversely a berger 80gr VLD reports a G1 of .455. So literally more than twice the BC. Suffice it to say, the two bullets are not a fair comparison when it comes to long range performance. However, there are some very specific metrics we are trying to test here and I think the data will be valuable to the industry as a whole, and VERY valuable to Hammer users. Once I've toasted this barrel on 52HH's, I'll likely put together another round of testing on their big boy 22cal bullets for a more pointed comparison to traditional heavy per cal bullets.


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[RockyMtnMT]

JBM - Calculations - Trajectory

www.jbmballistics.com

I think this works. I just ran some numbers on jbm ballistics. 52g Hammer Hunter at 4200 fps and 3000' elev standard atmosphere.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is the numbers with the 80g Berger at 3500fps. Everything else the same.

JBM - Calculations - Trajectory

www.jbmballistics.com

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Well I don't think that worked. I'll try again later. Time to go home!

 

[6.5shaggy]

I have a 22 creedmoor but haven't even got optics mounted yet. However, I have been shooting a 22PDK since 2012. It is. 6.8 SPC improved and necked to .224, 8 twist, shoots a 60 gr at 3600+ and a 80 gr at 3150. I have killed multiple hogs, deer and coyotes with it in excess of 700 yards with incredible efficiency. I have also owned several other varieties of .224 cal rifles and can attest to the vastly improved killing power of the faster twist rate barrels. With the 80 gr Hornday Amax I have logged multiple one shot kills at 500+ yards on 200+lb wild boars here in Texas. One bullet I remember recovering in the offside shoulder was a perfect mushroom. Multiple whitetails dropped-in- their tracks scary fast from 30 to 300 yards.
For those who feel that a .224 is unethical for deer-sized game, I do not wish to argue, and I wouldn't go on a trophy hunt with unproven equipment, but from my experience with the higher velocities coupled with higher RPM from the fast twist barrels, kill factors are raised exponentially. I have no doubt the right bullets from Creedmoor speeds will kill deer with authority. The long heavy .224s do something "magical" if that's the right term. The light weight copper bullets at hyper-velocity may be "mythical " at killing but I have no experience there. Anyway I am eager to see others' results and more knowledge is always a good thing.

 

[Coldfinger]

We

Don't take this more harshly than its intended. It's intended as a reminder. You can't admonish something you've no experience with and have it carry any weight at all. It is the sign of an intelligent man to know this.

An example of proper methodology when someone wishes to know something, looks like what I'm currently undertaking with these bullets. I have never shot a deer with a 52gr hammer hunter. So today I called and spoke with an avid Hammer 22cal customer. He has killed in excess of 60 deer with 22 cal hammers, many of them with 52gr hammer hunters. He assures me it will kill every bit as good if not better than the 80gr bergers I'm accustomed to. That is a good enough account for me to be willing to try it myself.

An 80gr berger hits a deer with an average of 300ft lbs more energy than a 6.5mm with a 140... at a distance of 600yds. The 22cal 80gr berger has a much stronger probability of transferring that energy than the 6.5mm. I have proven this beyond any shadow of doubt with my own first hand experiences. The deer I have shot with my 22 Creedmoor have been almost all lightning strike instant kills.

Despite all of my experience with 22cal on deer, I have ZERO experience with Hammers. So, in order for ANYTHING I say about them to be valid, I must shoot at least a few deer with them at several distances. Anyone listening to anything I say about them without verifying my first hand experience would be a fool, and I would be a fool for anchoring into any opinion without being able to demonstrate the work I performed which led to the formation of that opinion.

I will not allow this thread to be derailed by inexperience. If people have first hand accounts to share that are relevant, do so. If anyone has questions I can answer through testing, please ask. Argumentative or judgmental posts based on inexperience will be reported as off topic.


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Would you attribute this to hydrostatic shock more so than wound channel/tissue damage?

I have a pretty much personal testing ground right off my front porch. I've shot plenty of deer testing different bullets and cartridges. A food plot at 329 yards is the long shot here in NY. I've used 22-250, 257 Robert's, 22 creed and 257 wby mag in that food plot. Just to put it in perspective I still own the 22-250, 22creeds and 257 bobber!!! The 257 wby showed me no appreciable performance gain for the amount of powder wasted. All rifles are full custom not that it makes any difference. I rarely crono any loads as you can see it's not needed for my ranges. I understand every deer reacts completely differently to being shot but I've purposely waited for broadside shots and not hitting leg bone. I believe smashing the front leg bone thru the vitals isn't really showing true bullet performance as all the bone fragments usually do immense damage! Every single deer I've shot with 22-250 and 50 grain Speer TNT bullets has either dropped in their tracks, stood there like nothing happened and tipped over or walked in a small circle and nose dived.

22 creed 7 twist worked up to pressure then backed off a grain with 85.5 bergers. 4 mature does harvest over a few seasons. Every one same broadside behind the shoulder shots. Fabulous shower head blood trails. They all do the jump up in the air like a rodeo bronco but the farthest ran maybe 50 yards most only ran half that far.
22 creed 8 twist and 73 grain bergers. Well the rifle was so freaking accurate I only did head shots, sorry couldn't resist. Ran no where!
257 Roberts 10 twist 75 grain&90 grain hps dropped in tracks. 90 grain bullet did hit shoulder blade.
257 Wby mag 10 twist same 90 grain bullet as I used in 257 bobber. 2 does was enough powder wasted. First doe did rodeo bronco kick ran 120 yards vitals vaporized. Second doe ran 200 yards if there wasn't snow I'd probably lost her in the golden rod and brush. Very little blood trail but vitals vaporized.
Just my unscientific findings here in the hollers of western NY!!

 

[Hard rock]

We

22 creed 7 twist worked up to pressure then backed off a grain with 85.5 bergers. 4 mature does harvest over a few seasons. Every one same broadside behind the shoulder shots. Fabulous shower head blood trails. They all do the jump up in the air like a rodeo bronco but the farthest ran maybe 50 yards most only ran half that far.
22 creed 8 twist and 73 grain bergers. Well the rifle was so freaking accurate I only did head shots, sorry couldn't resist. Ran no where!
257 Roberts 10 twist 75 grain&90 grain hps dropped in tracks. 90 grain bullet did hit shoulder blade.
257 Wby mag 10 twist same 90 grain bullet as I used in 257 bobber. 2 does was enough powder wasted. First doe did rodeo bronco kick ran 120 yards vitals vaporized. Second doe ran 200 yards if there wasn't snow I'd probably lost her in the golden rod and brush. Very little blood trail but vitals vaporized.
Just my unscientific findings here in the hollers of western NY!!

 

[Hard rock]

We

22 creed 7 twist worked up to pressure then backed off a grain with 85.5 bergers. 4 mature does harvest over a few seasons. Every one same broadside behind the shoulder shots. Fabulous shower head blood trails. They all do the jump up in the air like a rodeo bronco but the farthest ran maybe 50 yards most only ran half that far.
22 creed 8 twist and 73 grain bergers. Well the rifle was so freaking accurate I only did head shots, sorry couldn't resist. Ran no where!
257 Roberts 10 twist 75 grain&90 grain hps dropped in tracks. 90 grain bullet did hit shoulder blade.
257 Wby mag 10 twist same 90 grain bullet as I used in 257 bobber. 2 does was enough powder wasted. First doe did rodeo bronco kick ran 120 yards vitals vaporized. Second doe ran 200 yards if there wasn't snow I'd probably lost her in the golden rod and brush. Very little blood trail but vitals vaporized.
Just my unscientific findings here in the hollers of western NY!!

At what velocity is the 140 gr 6.5 cal bullet in comparison too the 80 gr 22 cal vel , is there 300 ft lbs diff in energy at 600 yds.

 

[Andrew Massi]

At what velocity is the 140 gr 6.5 cal bullet in comparison too the 80 gr 22 cal vel , is there 300 ft lbs diff in energy at 600 yds.

That was orkans post

 

[Hard rock]

That was orkans post

Sorry about I got a little bumfuzzeled .

 

[bsnyder]

@orkan any updates?

 

[orkan]

@orkan any updates?

Sent the rifle out for cerakote. Should have it back this week. Hammer Creed will ride again.

 

[bsnyder]

Sent the rifle out for cerakote. Should have it back this week. Hammer Creed will ride again.

Awesome thanks! Bought the wife a 22 creed and I think I'm enjoying it enough to where we are fighting over it. Time to build another I guess.

 

[Gstew1930]

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