GUN WEIGHT

[southpa]

Well I guess if you actually read what I wrote. Iate you the very small part of hunters that actually hunt like that. That that might make a difference to or are you the vast majority that thinks he hunts like that but really doesn't. If you had a little thicker skin and weren't so defensive. You would understand what I wad saying.

If you read what I said you'd understand it's wasn't directed at you per say because I literally stated that. Talk about thin skinned. I promise I could care less about what a stranger thinks of my trail weights but it's obvious who thinks they know what's best for everyone based on their opinions of what ounces mean.

Again, not aimed specifically at you specifically. Just in general.

 

[waveslayer]

Ok well explain away how adding more surface area would not help. Surface area cools. It's pure science. Also has been proven in brake rotors. Now if you told me they say it has very little effect and no real world id say sure. But if you are increasing surface area it will increase cooling.

Bryan Litz did extensive testing. And documented that fluting adding the surface area caused the barrels to take longer to cool. Brakes, with major airflow and holes to relieve rotors, etc, not even in the same league. Don't need to take my word for it, take it up with Litz. He also concluded that POI shifts from heat were less than steel barrels, that's the benefit of Carbon, not weight

Barrel Field Test Featured In Modern Advancements Volume 2

Lots of people have asked what I’ve been working on, and I’m excited to finally be able to tell you...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[southpa]

Bryan Litz did extensive testing. And documented that fluting adding the surface area caused the barrels to take longer to cool. Brakes, with major airflow and holes to relieve rotors, etc, not even in the same league. Don't need to take my word for it, take it up with Litz. He also concluded that POI shifts from heat were less than steel barrels, that's the benefit of Carbon, not weight

Barrel Field Test Featured In Modern Advancements Volume 2

Lots of people have asked what I’ve been working on, and I’m excited to finally be able to tell you...

precisionrifleblog.com

Along with weight savings...

 

[snox801]

Bryan Litz did extensive testing. And documented that fluting adding the surface area caused the barrels to take longer to cool. Brakes, with major airflow and holes to relieve rotors, etc, not even in the same league. Don't need to take my word for it, take it up with Litz. He also concluded that POI shifts from heat were less than steel barrels, that's the benefit of Carbon, not weight

Barrel Field Test Featured In Modern Advancements Volume 2

Lots of people have asked what I’ve been working on, and I’m excited to finally be able to tell you...

precisionrifleblog.com

Again the science is proven that increasing surface area does indeed transfer more heat. Which transfers it to the air around it.

Brian is an expert at his job. But he is not an expert at thermal dynamics. So taking his word for that subject is like listing to Taylor swift when it comes politics. Not to say his testing was not good enough. But maybe his data collection was not good enough or to many variables.

Fluting helps in two ways that science is proven on. Increase surface area and that increases cooling. If that were not true the whole concept of heat syncs would be false for every other application. Or somehow rifle barrel steel breaks all stats we have on that field. It also reduces weight. Reducing weight also means that the object will cool faster after the weight was removed everything else being equal. Big objects take longer to heat and cool than smaller ones made of the same material.
carbon barrels are lighter for thickness and thus have much less poi shifts. I run them on my rigs. Doesn't change the fact that what I said was not true.
Now does that mean it makes any bit of difference for what we are able to measure? Probably not with the data Brian collected.

 

[Philward]

OK, so when will we see the radial finned barrels?

 

[Mtn Dawg]

Bryan Litz did extensive testing. And documented that fluting adding the surface area caused the barrels to take longer to cool. Brakes, with major airflow and holes to relieve rotors, etc, not even in the same league. Don't need to take my word for it, take it up with Litz. He also concluded that POI shifts from heat were less than steel barrels, that's the benefit of Carbon, not weight

Barrel Field Test Featured In Modern Advancements Volume 2

Lots of people have asked what I’ve been working on, and I’m excited to finally be able to tell you...

precisionrifleblog.com

I see the results are published in two book volumes. Have you read them or are you just citing summaries from others?

Edit: I ask because this subject gets beaten to death on virtually every platform. In my estimation the "science" reveals one conclusion or another, but neither has a functional real world effect on the average hunter's ability to deliver on accurate kills. That's what we are actually talking about here. What it does support is for every hunter to test his own set up and decide how he will work with whatever idiosyncrasies it represents.

 

[snox801]

I see the results are published in two book volumes. Have you read them or are you just citing summaries from others?

I'm just taking the summary of what he said. For me I would love to read them. But it would be the only time ever that adding surface area and removing weight of an object would increase the time to cool. I am taking waveslayer at his word. He may have read them and that was the conclusion, but not sure how they measured or how that would defy all other studies. As far as brakes on cars it's the same science. Airflow may effect the cooling but doesn't means it's different. That metal has zero idea if it has flutes for brakes or for barrels. Add that on top of removing mass causing it to take longer to cool is simply impossible.

 

[Mtn Dawg]

I'm just taking the summary of what he said. For me I would love to read them. But it would be the only time ever that adding surface area and removing weight of an object would increase the time to cool. I am taking waveslayer at his word. He may have read them and that was the conclusion, but not sure how they measured or how that would defy all other studies. As far as brakes on cars it's the same science. Airflow may effect the cooling but doesn't means it's different. That metal has zero idea if it has flutes for brakes or for barrels. Add that on top of removing mass causing it to take longer to cool is simply impossible.

Would be nice if we didn't have to buy the information to learn about the study. I have not read it because none of it matters in the least for me. I did see that no sporter weight steel barrels were in the test. I really just wonder if the results are being misrepresented in some way. Say for example they a steel barrel actually does cool faster but in such a heavy barrel contour the cooling is so negligible as to be inconsequential. That is different than saying they don't cool faster.

Edits: for spelling

 

[FEENIX]

Yeah well pound and half on a gun is not 20% of your weight. And yes TRUE MOUNTAIN HUNTERS can benefit from lighter equipment. But 99.999% of all the hunters are not that kind of hunter. I know that and you know that. And all the few hunters that are like that already know what they need for equipment. I've hunted in different places in the world. I know about 2 days horse back and hiking just to get to base camp. 1 and 1/2 pound at most on my rifle was the least of my worries

This reminds me of a 10-day backpacking trip at the Bob Marshall Wilderness in MT I did with my sons' Boy Scout Troop a few years ago. The goal was to pack no more than 20% of our body weight. During the planning stages, I was doing OK. However, on the day of our trip, I ended up with a 63 lbs pack. I overpacked and far exceeded the 20% goal.

It was supposed to be a 50-miler on paper, but we ended up with 98 miles actual. We had to change course a couple of times per ranger's recommendation. The weight of my pack was not the issue, but rather leg cramps I was having in the first 2 days. It was due to lack of electrolytes. Luckily, my sons and I had MREs with Gatorade powder drink. The next issue we had was blisters when we got to the halfway point. We all ended up with MT size blisters despite taking all the precautions.

In short, it was not the weight that was the challenge, and physical conditioning is what made us complete the trip.

 

[RichCoyle]

OK, so when will we see the radial finned barrels?

That would add weight. Not happening.

 

[CaneBrake]

I do have a mechanical engineering degree but admittedly, I'm not an expert on thermodynamics. With that said, I imagine that the reason Litz's publishings ( I have not read them) may show little improvement from barrel fluting is due to the thermal boundary layer. I'm guessing that the flutes added with the boundary layer create a dead space within the flutes where fluid velocity is equal to zero or very near zero. This in theory would basically negate the benefit of the added surface area.

 

[Carey Farmer]

Packing meat out usually makes the weight of the rifle (and everything else I packed in) seem like less of an issue to me.

That issue (packing meat out) is what has imposed limits on the terrain and distance from the road I've been willing to tackle. Not the weight of the rifle.

 

[Marky_mark]

Yeah well pound and half on a gun is not 20% of your weight. And yes TRUE MOUNTAIN HUNTERS can benefit from lighter equipment. But 99.999% of all the hunters are not that kind of hunter. I know that and you know that. And all the few hunters that are like that already know what they need for equipment. I've hunted in different places in the world. I know about 2 days horse back and hiking just to get to base camp. 1 and 1/2 pound at most on my rifle was the least of my worries

True mountain hunters dont care about weight. They know what they need in order to be successful.
One of the best, if not the best mountain hunter out there right now takes a swarovski btx with a 115 mm objective on his sheep hunts

 

[snox801]

I do have a mechanical engineering degree but admittedly, I'm not an expert on thermodynamics. With that said, I imagine that the reason Litz's publishings ( I have not read them) may show little improvement from barrel fluting is due to the thermal boundary layer. I'm guessing that the flutes added with the boundary layer create a dead space within the flutes where fluid velocity is equal to zero or very near zero. This in theory would basically negate the benefit of the added surface area.

That was about all I could figure. But that would be only in a dead still environment with no wind. I'm more curious on how they were able to get a controlled environment for the test. A 5mph wind change would indeed make a difference. And as you point out in a dead still environment that barrier could show no gain. But real world applications it would. It still should cool faster because it less mass after fluting.