Great discussion.

[Huntnful]

If you have some free time and like podcasts, this is one of the better conversations you will hear about;

Wound channels vs. bullet types.

Wound channels vs. caliber size.

Shoot-ability vs. recoil.


Basically myth busting old fork lore about "energy" needed to kill animals.

Most of the conversation is about killing in that 600 yard range. And some of it goes into benefits of larger cartridges/bullets and their benefits at extended range. Like seeing splash, combating wind drift, and larger wound channels for when you make a bad wind call and actually need that larger wound channel lol.


The podcast is called "The Hunt Backcountry Podcast" and is hosted by the guys that own EXO packs.

 

[Hand Skills]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Here's a link for old guys to click;

 

[Huntnful]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Here's a link for old guys to click;

Oh awesome! Appreciate that!

 

[adk hunter]

I listened to it. Keeping an open mind is important and Form was speaking about shooting rifles with less recoil. Basically the less the whole system moves the better you can make a surgical shot. Like exponentially…

Grenading bullets or match type also was interesting to listen to.

Now, I'd rather get bit by a mosquito than a killer bee. Choose your cartridge accordingly

 

[Huntnful]

I listened to it. Keeping an open mind is important and Form was speaking about shooting rifles with less recoil. Basically the less the whole system moves the better you can make a surgical shot. Like exponentially…

Grenading bullets or match type also was interesting to listen to.

Now, I'd rather get bit by a mosquito than a killer bee. Choose your cartridge accordingly

I get the analogy, but don't think it quite relates the same. It would be like two killer bees. One kills you in 10 seconds and the other kills you in 5 seconds lol.

 

[Huntnful]

Just to preface this post, I like large cartridges and calibers. I've killed big game with big 30's, big 7's, big 6's and big 22's now. Everything he states, I have seen personally as well.

 

[wasskeet]

FWIW,
I heard the Shoot to Hunt guys (Ryan Avery, Jake Mushaney & Form ) speaking of how some Dads, Grandad's had their kids out with them hunting with 6 Creed's and were pretty impressed on how well it handled big game.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

So just don't suck...

 

[Huntnful]

So just don't suck...

Hahaha I mean, pretty much.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Was hoping he would get into bigger bullet diameter.

He touched on biggest wound channel, but never talked about bigger caliber. I may have missed it.

I am not talking about cartridge, but caliber.

For instance, 6.5 vs .338. Same speed (ish). I am a believer in big holes make bigger wound channels.

I hunt in the VA woods, muzzleloaders leave great blood trails. Definitely help with trailing through the thick stuff or down into the hollers when they run 50ft out of sight.

Maybe the next one will cover it.

 

[Huntnful]

Was hoping he would get into bigger bullet diameter.

He touched on biggest wound channel, but never talked about bigger caliber. I may have missed it.

I am not talking about cartridge, but caliber.

For instance, 6.5 vs .338. Same speed (ish). I am a believer in big holes make bigger wound channels.

I hunt in the VA woods, muzzleloaders leave great blood trails. Definitely help with trailing through the thick stuff or down into the hollers when they run 50ft out of sight.

Maybe the next one will cover it.

Absolutely. I believe it's covered on part 2. But a quick rough summary is, heavy for caliber frangible bullets carry wound channels about like this, in ballistics gel.

.243 - 4" wide channel
.264 - 5"
.284 - 6"
.308 - 7"
.338 - 8"+

Of course it can vary and bullets are different, but that's basically the wound channels of big ELDM's

 

[jessej]

For instance, 6.5 vs .338. Same speed (ish). I am a believer in big holes make bigger wound channels.

You can run from the truth, hide from it, try to bury it, but in the end, there it is, being the truth.

 

[E4aker]

My experience is very different. If you shoot enough elk, there is going to be wrecks. You need to bring enough gun.

He talks about shooting like 50 whitetails in a row with a 95gr nosler bt and them all being bang/flops.

When I lived in the southeast I shot several whitetails with same exact combo and most always had them run 40-50yds with a double lung shot. So that raises concerns to the legitimacy of his experience.

A local ranch manager here does a lot of damage hunts for elk late season. They shoot about 50 elk a year, mostly kids shooting smaller calibers/cartridges. Creedmoors, etc.

He tells me all the time about elk that needed 4-5 Hits from the 6.5mm to go down.

I've killed elk with 7mm, 30, and 338 with frangible match bullets and I see elk stay on their feet longer as the bullets get smaller.

 

[Huntnful]

My experience is very different. If you shoot enough elk, there is going to be wrecks. You need to bring enough gun.

He talks about shooting like 50 whitetails in a row with a 95gr nosler bt and them all being bang/flops.

When I lived in the southeast I shot several whitetails with same exact combo and most always had them run 40-50yds with a double lung shot. So that raises concerns to the legitimacy of his experience.

A local ranch manager here does a lot of damage hunts for elk late season. They shoot about 50 elk a year, mostly kids shooting smaller calibers/cartridges. Creedmoors, etc.

He tells me all the time about elk that needed 4-5 Hits from the 6.5mm to go down.

I've killed elk with 7mm, 30, and 338 with frangible match bullets and I see elk stay on their feet longer as the bullets get smaller.

I WANT to agree, but I've killed 3 elk with a bow and they were all off their feet in under 20 seconds. So I know for a fact a 1.5" wound channel is absolutely devastating when placed in the lungs. And any rifle with a heavy for caliber frangible makes a much bigger wound channel than that.

I also shot a bull at **** near point blank with a big 7mm, and it was on its feet for over 50 seconds.

There's also a ton of videos of elk getting shot with large calibers multiple times and just standing there soaking them up. And then they're just considered "tough". But when I pushed a small razor blade through the lungs, those bulls weren't so tough.

I definitely think it is more just a difference in animal to animal reaction, much more than it is caliber to caliber.

Just like when I shot a big mature buck, right behind the shoulder with a certain bullet, and it stoned him. And then shot a much smaller buck, with the same exact setup, that had an exit the size of a softball, and he ran 100 yards. They're just different animals, and reacted differently.

Its also much easier to manage recoil and shoot faster follow up shots with small cartridge/caliber, so that's one potential reasoning for getting hit 4 times with a smaller gun, vs. 2 times for example from a bigger gun.

But I also believe if you're shooting for central
nervous system type of high shoulder shots, you'll probably drop more animals with a larger caliber/cartridge, because the force of impact is much higher to shock their system.

But they're lungs don't need something to extravagant to be lethal in a potentially short time. Arrows absolutely wreck bulls when placed well.