Getting a reticle level is nearly impossible .

Maybe I'm missing something.....

I get a level for the rail and bag the gun in tight. I get a grid target and level it. Very few target stands are level nor are most benches.

I level the receiver and then make sure the retical is level with the target. Tighten it down and go.

You either assume the receiver is square or you don't. If you don't you need to resolve that before you address anything else.

I say this because many people are fine with moa groups on a skewed rail.....so it doesn't matter.........but if you want bugholes then you need to chase things in the right order.
 
Maybe I'm missing something.....

I get a level for the rail and bag the gun in tight. I get a grid target and level it. Very few target stands are level nor are most benches.

I level the receiver and then make sure the retical is level with the target. Tighten it down and go.

You either assume the receiver is square or you don't. If you don't you need to resolve that before you address anything else.

I say this because many people are fine with moa groups on a skewed rail.....so it doesn't matter.........but if you want bugholes then you need to chase things in the right order.

I've never had the problem with the mount being off center, but I do always check that the vertical crosshair of the scope is aligned with the bore. It never hurts to double check. And I'm really anal about my scope alignment. I do the plumb level I described earlier to check elevation adjustments are truly vertical, not just on a grid target. Then I shoot the square (adjust elevation, windage set number of mils on grid target, ensure adjustments are exactly on specification. If not, programs such as Applied Ballistics or Shooter allow for scope error.)

You truly owe it to the prey, as well as your piece of mind, to ensure complete accuracy of your equipment. Now all you have to worry about it yourself. :D
 
Maybe I'm missing something.....

You either assume the receiver is square or you don't. If you don't you need to resolve that before you address anything else.

QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct. Here is a good method. Set your scoped rifle in a cleaning stand at the range on top of a level bench. Find a bubble square (one that has a bubble level at one end of the handle). Keep the straight edge absolutely straight vertically from the recoil pad toe up to the center of the recoil pad. Move rifle until bubble shows it is level. Keep it tightly stationery there while you adjust the scope (keep scope loose in rings). Put another bubble level on scope cap, rotate scope until that one is level. Now, your scope is aligned with the bore. Tighten scope rings and proceed as stated above.
 
guys...

I make the Segway Reticle Leveler. Its cheap and it works. You can buy it here. If you google the name Segway Reticle Leveler you will find many reviews comments about it. I know you will fiind it useful.

J
 
I can level until I am blue in the face but in the end I have to use the elevation turret or shoot 100
yards to 600 yards to get a perfict level of the scope.

If you shoot 100 yards and then start up on the elevation the POI will tell you which way you have to go.

I allways place a small piece of tape on the scope against one of the rings and another on the ring after the first attempt to level the scope. then I make a very fine mark on both pieces as a reference so if I need to move the scope I know where I was, and where I need to be.

J E CUSTOM

After running a search I still can't find the answer to my question- So if I shoot at 100 yards at the "upside down T" as described in the "Reticle Perpendicularity" article, then dial up 10 or 15 MOA and shoot at the original POA, and the POI is a little to the right, which way would I rotate the scope in the rings?
 
After running a search I still can't find the answer to my question- So if I shoot at 100 yards at the "upside down T" as described in the "Reticle Perpendicularity" article, then dial up 10 or 15 MOA and shoot at the original POA, and the POI is a little to the right, which way would I rotate the scope in the rings?

Is this quiz time?:D
 
After running a search I still can't find the answer to my question- So if I shoot at 100 yards at the "upside down T" as described in the "Reticle Perpendicularity" article, then dial up 10 or 15 MOA and shoot at the original POA, and the POI is a little to the right, which way would I rotate the scope in the rings?
Where your POI is right, you need to move the reticle rightward to compensate. That would be clockwise w/resp to eyepiece end.
 
This little gadget works great.for me

OPTIC LEVELER | Brownells

I use to worry about whole lot.about getting the reticle level. This thing does it no problem.

But there are other problems.

If I am shooting of bags on the bench free recoil and use my level built into my scope mount a level reticle works great.

But if I am shooting one of my hunting rifles and pull it up tight in my shoulder pocket I have a natural cant. Really hard to compensate for. I have tried several ideas. What I do now is shoot a group as far as I can see the target clearly, dial in as much vertical as I can and keep it on the target, pick what I feel is the center of the group and draw a heavy line through it. Then I measure the distance from the vertical line on the target and draw another line on the opposite side of the target like my canted line. Set the rifle up level and align the reticle up with my new line. Not perfect but close. Looks a little funny when you have the rifle level but looks level when it is shouldered for shooting
 
Please explain how the EXP Engineering vertical reticle instrument is used? Thanks
It only shows that point where the scope is plumb above the barrel.
And the wedge system linked above only serves to get turrets square to a base.
Neither does anything to achieve plumb reticle or elevation adjustments.

Ring & base levels don't work here either. They only roughly show gun level.
Gun level is not the goal, and doesn't matter.
 
It only shows that point where the scope is plumb above the barrel.
And the wedge system linked above only serves to get turrets square to a base.
Neither does anything to achieve plumb reticle or elevation adjustments.
Using the EXP instrument along with a level on the scope will put the scope over the bore and then put the reticle in line with this when you level the scope. You don't use it by itself.

The only caveat is the windage-adjustable bases. If not centered, they move the bell of the scope to one side. That likely matters more for those of us who try hard to get the reticle to match the centerline of the rifle.

I've never used the wedge system linked elsewhere.
 
I have an EXP in a drawer about 10' from me, along with other devices which I believe cover pretty much everything mentioned here. I couldn't suggest that any are bad toys.
What I will suggest is that we lose sight(literally) of what we're doing.

Where each component is made well & square, guns are not built square, they're built to best fit with these components. That's close enough.
Why is close enough good enough? Because very little has to be square, or level, to work for us.
Important is only what we can repeatedly establish from shot to shot, one condition to the next.

If your shouldering consistently cants the gun 3degs(whether you know it or not), and you've zero'd and load developed with this, and it's how you'll be shooting in the field(or want to), then all that matters is your establishing of this as prerequisite to each shot. The gun overall, including individual components, could be canted, rotated, tilted, skewed, bent, etc., and it doesn't matter one bit provided the point of aim(POA) is taken back to your reference.
Individual components also includes the scope body and it's internals.

So forget the gun for a minute, assuming that as long as your not pointed at the guy next bench over, you're ok there. How do we establish our reference POA, while dialing, or holding over?
Now we're back to reticle level.

Lotta reticles out there. Some are dots which we're not gonna level. Some reticles(well, many) are not mounted square to internals, and we should not twist our guns around them anymore than all the other gun components.
But we can level our elevation adjustment, and hope this will cause plumb horizontal stadia(if needed). 'Level' here is 'plumb',, that's a reference, given that gravity is our reference, which bullet drop is tied to.
We can level our visible elevation hold-off, just the same, for the same reasons.
Can't usually do both. Choose one or the other.

So we can dismiss the gun build, and most of the scope, and most level toys, and set a plumb POA as our reference. Then, we can tweak this POA for external ballistics we can't compensate for on a bench(like spin drift & muzzle whip). Things we have to shoot(at distance) to adjust for.
We can dial lines, and shoot lines. While you're at it, measure actual click values, box test your adjustments, learn what you can about your high dollar scope, and ballistic software.

So where should we put the final reference? Where should we mount it?
I like the scope itself, as this reference can then follow that scope from gun to gun. In fact, I can store that scope in a safe, and it forever holds it's reference. I can put in on another gun & go shooting to mid distances & group shooting at least(tweak it later). It's potential madness reduced to stick figure solution:
Scoplevel Anti Cant Leveling Device
Would I like for this plastic *** to be CNC machined in exotic metal? NO! In the field, 'nice' would be damaged or damage my scope. But with decades of use, and occasional whacking of these things, no ScopLevel has ever let me down. You can twist it, springs right back.
You could mount a really 'nice' level anywhere else, but it better be fully coarse/fine adjustable from there, or it will never be right.
The other attribute I like about ScopLevel is that it's squarely visible, with my shooting eye, while I'm pulling the trigger. Off hand, I cannot think of any other that is(but I'm sure there is).

Anyway, think about what we're doing, and consider how you can cover exactly that.
 
I just get the cross hairs reasonably close,
then use Byrans Litz tall target method,
to make sure that every thing is square and true,
plus I can check the scope clicks to make sure they are as quoted.

For info on B Litz Tall target test see info here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Wf0Cuwwi8

It does work,
better than any other method I have used in the past......

HTH,

Tia,
Don
 
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