Gas

[2buffalo]

I am not blaming the oil companies but rather their business practices are the reason gas prices are so high. They are trying to make as much money as possible. Its what they do. Why else would they exist? It seems like some people want to believe that corporations are people. Do you really think corporations have a conscience and would be more than happy reduce their profits in order to help the american people but its the mean ole government that won't let them spread their generosity across this great nation. If you need to blame something then blame our love for capitalism and the free market because ultimately, its to blame and the catalyst to current gas prices is the crash back in 2020 but Biden wasn't president back then so we don't want to admit that.

If corporations aren't people then what are they? Without people they don't exist. We don't have pure capitalism because the government over regulates. When the government does this it drives up prices period.

Let's take health care for a simple example. When Obamacare passed it instantly doubled prices and has done nothing but increase since then. I was a trustee on a health and welfare board at the time and I predicted this and nobody on the board believed it. They would not increase funding so I resigned and within a year the fund almost went belly up. They had to increase funding by 3x just so people didn't lose their health insurance.

Another example is the "paycheck protection plan" during covid. There was never a reason to shut down the economy but the government stepped in and forced buisnesses to shut down. The business I work for had a terrible year last year. We did not take the money and would not have even if we were eligible. Many businesses in the same industry that shut down and collected government money had a great year. For several reasons because of this our business is in a stronger position for not taking the money.

In my lifetime I have never seen the government get involved with anything that made it cheaper for the consumer. The price always goes up and then the Kool aid drinkers like yourself blame the corporations and ask for more government involvement. Common sense to some of us.

 

[2buffalo]

I gotta say guys. Jim has a point. We don't have to see eye to eye with him on everything. But to hit ignore we do create an echo chamber which doesn't help anyone.
Some things he posts make me think a little more others just make me believe my original thoughts on a matter are even more superior than I thought. Nothing wrong with some debate. He has been polite so you do t have to agree but it may help you learn a bit more about what the other side sees.

Agreed. But I have yet to see him post any facts with any back up to prove what he is saying. Like I said in an earlier post if he could back up what he is saying with anything he would have people jump on his band wagon. Until then all he is doing is regurgitating talking points, making baseless claims, and speculating.

 

[JimFromTN]

How about the vast majority of employees working from home and not having huge office expenses.
This is week documented in many companies m. Even the one I work for. They are not even planning on having the offices full anymore.
Lots of reason for profits it's the margins we must look at. I have not looked but it bet it's not raised a ton.

We are talking oil companies and the profits they made in 2021. It was not a result of PPP money. The PPP money was given out in 2020 when the oil industry almost went belly up. If you are suggesting that PPP money kept them from bankruptcy which aloud them to make profits in 2021, I can't dispute that but the profits themselves came from the price of oil. 2020 saw the largest reduction in oil production in this country's history. The reason was because oil prices were tanking. The reason they tanked was 2 fold. 1st and foremost, everyone stopped traveling and demand tanked. The 2nd reason is that Russia was having an oil war with OPEC and flooded the market. Oil dropped to $11 a barrel. In 2021, things start to get back to normal and demand starts increasing. If you want to claim the PPP money helped get back to normal and as a result affected demand, I won't disagree. Oil production increased but was not keeping up with demand so oil prices continued to climb. At some point, the oil companies realized they could make more money by controlling the flow of oil than going back to drill baby drill.

By the way, I work from home as a result of covid. Some companies are making their employees go back to the office because they have to much invested in the buildings they are in or they are old school and think they need to be able to keep an eye on them to make sure they are working. Funny thing is that productivity went up when everyone went remote. I think they are realizing or soon will that their employees got a taste of working from home and will go find another job working remote if they are forced back into the office. I know several people who have done this.

 

[JimFromTN]

I was not insinuating that. I thought I made it clear. The demand for their product had not increased. The company is not allowed to add any more product into the supply.

That does not sound right at all. The demand for their product has not increased? The company is not allowed to add any more product into the supply? Thats not the government controlling that.

 

[jbs2014]

Am I screwing up the echo chamber?

No, hard as it is for you too imagine but he is correct nobody cares what you have to say.

 

[JimFromTN]

I gotta say guys. Jim has a point. We don't have to see eye to eye with him on everything. But to hit ignore we do create an echo chamber which doesn't help anyone.
Some things he posts make me think a little more others just make me believe my original thoughts on a matter are even more superior than I thought. Nothing wrong with some debate. He has been polite so you do t have to agree but it may help you learn a bit more about what the other side sees.

These people aren't like you and I. We see debate as a sport. We love to debate so we educate ourselves and we are willing to listen to people with opposing viewpoints. We can even cause each other to question our own views and when we do we go out and educate ourselves because we hate losing an argument and we don't want to make the same mistake twice. These people don't want to learn. It interferes with what they want to believe. I said this in another thread. The days of intelligent, respectful political debate are over. We are in a minority. People just want an echo chamber.

 

[JimFromTN]

No, hard as it is for you too imagine but he is correct nobody cares what you have to say.

If it upsets someone then obviously they care what I have to say.

 

[JimFromTN]

Agreed. But I have yet to see him post any facts with any back up to prove what he is saying. Like I said in an earlier post if he could back up what he is saying with anything he would have people jump on his band wagon. Until then all he is doing is regurgitating talking points, making baseless claims, and speculating.

What baseless claims? What speculation? Did the oil companies not lose money in 2020? Did oil companies not reduce production in 2020? Did oil companies not make record profits in 2021? Did oil companies not report record profits in their first quarter of this year? Are there not leases and permits available for oil companies to use if they so choose? Again, not denying that going from a lease to pulling oil out of the ground isn't expensive and complex. It always has been. Its nothing new. It also makes my point as to why oil companies would rather make more money by simply controlling the flow of oil that starting new wells.

 

[jbs2014]

If it upsets someone then obviously they care what I have to say.

No, they really don't

 

[squeeeeze]

 

[JimFromTN]

No, they really don't

If they don't then why does it upset them?

 

[jbs2014]

View attachment 367350

Sums it up nicely

 

[2buffalo]

What baseless claims? What speculation? Did the oil companies not lose money in 2020? Did oil companies not reduce production in 2020? Did oil companies not make record profits in 2021? Did oil companies not report record profits in their first quarter of this year? Are there not leases and permits available for oil companies to use if they so choose? Again, not denying that going from a lease to pulling oil out of the ground isn't expensive and complex. It always has been. Its nothing new. It also makes my point as to why oil companies would rather make more money by simply controlling the flow of oil that starting new wells.

Let's try something different. A yes or no quiz. I am pretty confident you won't take it and if you do you won't be able to just give yes or no answers but maybe you will surprise me.

Did Trump warn the American people that Bidens policies would lead to high gas prices? Y/N (link for help in answering)


In post 566 you say "companies are not investing in new wells". If you make this claim without a source is this speculation and/or a baseless claim? Y/N

Have you answered questions from post 550 "While you are at it let us know how many permits are attached to the leases, how many of the leases have been explored and verified that there is actually oil on them, and if they have been explored and oil has been found in the abundance they need to make the investment into oil rigs? How many of these leases are being set up on now to start drilling? It doesn't happen over night. How much more is it costing to maintain refineries from inflation that Biden caused by out of control spending which only was stopped at a certain point by people in his own party or it would be worse? I know it is high because i work in the piping industry. Are they allowed to frack on these lease to lessen the burden? What are their labor costs in comparison to the pre-Biden good old days? Once you can answer these questions with facts maybe you can convince people to your argument. Until then you are just spewing Huffington Post, CNN, and others talking points given to them from Brandon." Y/N

If you can't answer these questions is it not baseless claims and speculation? Y/N

You state "When oil has dropped oil companies have not been lowering the price of gas. They have been absorbing the profits." do you have proof of this? (Please refer back to post 539 for your answer) Y/N

If you can't is this a baseless claim? Y/N

Did Biden sign an executive order with an indefinite "pause on new oil and natural gas leases on public lands" until a comprehensive review on the climate change impacts can be completed. Y/N (Hint you can find your answer here). https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ckling-the-climate-crisis-at-home-and-abroad/

"Interestingly, Oil prices where higher under G W Bush but the price of gas lower". Has the price of doing business gone up from 20 years ago? Y/N

 

[birddog 68]

Nicely done 2buffalo. He wanted facts and you produced but I doubt anything including facts will change his thinking. Because he's right regardless of the facts.