Follow-Up on Thursday’s Wyoming Bear Attack

[sitkastw]

All that I can think is ...

I'm a lucky Dog ..I'm a lucky Dog ..
I'm having friends for Dinner ! (Bow hunters) the Bear is thinking! Ha ha

I remember when I first moved to Montana in 05 we didnt think to much about Big Bears but after 10 years or so it weighted heavy on my mind when the Wife and I were out Hunting.

My forum picture is very real and Man i was so "STUPID " for tracking that Bruin for almost a hr !
Im totally Lucky I never cought up to him .
It was not to far from Nevada Creek Reservoir.
for the boys from Montana!
That same time period my Brother was working on a Sub Station in that area. The Rancher stopped and told all the Boys to be on the look out for a Large Grizzly in the area .
Now it seems we are hearing about them almost every week .

Rum Man

I don't think most people realize how close to predators they really are while boot hunting. These pics are within 50 miles of the same place you tracked one. The only difference is their tracks were on mine or close behind. They surely have no fear of humans. The griz tracks (sow and cub I assume) in the mud was 4 miles from the truck. The griz tracks around my truck was the following day. Cat tracks in my boot tracks was the prior year.

 

[claybreaker]

I can see where limp-wristing could be a real thing in a sudden attack like this hunter was dealing with.

Maybe he only had one hand available? maybe his off hand?, maybe fired with bend wrist because the angle he had and extreme closeness of the bears head.

I would want to have to extra rounds that an G20 would afford over a 6 or 7 hole cylinder, but for sure it needs to go BANG every time without question when you pull the trigger... because your life depends on it.

In practice and prep I would shoot with a limp wrist intentionally to see if it the pistol either FTE or FTF. If either occurs I'm leaning toward a cylinder gun.

 

[dfanonymous]

I can see where limp-wristing could be a real thing in a sudden attack like this hunter was dealing with.

Maybe he only had one hand available? maybe his off hand?, maybe fired with bend wrist because the angle he had and extreme closeness of the bears head.

I would want to have to extra rounds that an G20 would afford over a 6 or 7 hole cylinder, but for sure it needs to go BANG every time without question when you pull the trigger... because your life depends on it.

In practice and prep I would shoot with a limp wrist intentionally to see if it the pistol either FTE or FTF. If either occurs I'm leaning toward a cylinder gun.

that's what I was getting at about the sudden attack. Imagine being tackled by something 6-700lbs while firing. There isn't "practice" in the world that will prepare you for not limp wristing that while in free fall.

On the flip side, it's reasonable that he might have fired more than 5 shots at this bear…so..there's that when considering the wheel gun…based just off this one scenario.

 

[C-130 Dude]

that's what I was getting at about the sudden attack. Imagine being tackled by something 6-700lbs while firing. There isn't "practice" in the world that will prepare you for not limp wristing that while in free fall.

On the flip side, it's reasonable that he might have fired more than 5 shots at this bear…so..there's that when considering the wheel gun…based just off this one scenario.

The distance the bear started the atrack was so close, you would be hard pressed to get off more than a shot or two before she was on you. Whether or not you could fire any handgun at point blank range accurately under the deadly pressure of a charging bear and then have to attend to a jam absolutely necessitates offhand and strong hand practice along with emergency action drills. Again, you have to weigh the simplicity of a revolver vs a semi auto. You can get away with grip issues somewhat with a revolver that a semi auto will not tollerate. (Granted, you may have sprained/broken wrist issues.) Remember the KISS principle here. More ammo does not mean you can get shots on target. After all, it's your life your messing with. Is it worth it to venture into dangerous game territory ill prepared or ill practiced? If you do, that's on you. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[dfanonymous]

The distance the bear started the atrack was so close, you would be hard pressed to get off more than a shot or two before she was on you. Whether or not you could fire any handgun at point blank range accurately under the deadly pressure of a charging bear and then have to attend to a jam absolutely necessitates offhand and strong hand practice along with emergency action drills. Again, you have to weigh the simplicity of a revolver vs a semi auto. You can get away with grip issues somewhat with a revolver that a semi auto will not tollerate. (Granted, you may have sprained/broken wrist issues.) Remember the KISS principle here. More ammo does not mean you can get shots on target. After all, it's your life your messing with. Is it worth it to venture into dangerous game territory ill prepared or ill practiced? If you do, that's on you. Practice, practice, practice.

I'm just going off what the article said he said.

That said, you're making your own argument against yourself. More ammo doesn't mean you can get more shots on target, but less ammo means you have less margin for error like in this case. Even at close range.

While I still agree with being well trained…
How do you practice? I've trained a lot of people in CQB, and so forth. I'm well aware how to train and even how to be a trainer. The question is how do YOU train for this scenario? Do you fine the biggest linebacker to hit you, while you're in the low ready with sim rounds? Lol you get a pet bear to throw you around while p1ssing it off with paint balls?

Immediate and remedial action is for semi autos. That IS the training. He lived. I would say the Glock 20 and mild training paid off. Pretending the outcome would have been better with a revolver..I just don't see the evidence.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I'm just going off what the article said he said.

View attachment 606437

That said, you're making your own argument against yourself. More ammo doesn't mean you can get more shots on target, but less ammo means you have less margin for error like in this case. Even at close range.

While I still agree with being well trained…
How do you practice? I've trained a lot of people in CQB, and so forth. I'm well aware how to train and even how to be a trainer. The question is how do YOU train for this scenario? Do you fine the biggest linebacker to hit you, while you're in the low ready with sim rounds? Lol you get a pet bear to throw you around while p1ssing it off with paint balls?

Immediate and remedial action is for semi autos. That IS the training. He lived. I would say the Glock 20 and mild training paid off. Pretending the outcome would have been better with a revolver..I just don't see the evidence.

The evidence is there. He said the weapon jammed. He also guessed it may have had something to do with his grip. I've had my semi auto guns jam when not gripped correctly. I have a g20 and g29 and both are a real handful if not handled right. If you press the muzzle against an object as you discharge it, this can cause it to come out of battery causing a jam. Training to shoot requires more than a static target. Moving targets and multiple target engagement are invaluable to engaging a target efficiently and effectively. This type of practice also reduces waisting precious ammo.

All I'm trying to say is the op got caught in a really bad situation. He is extremely lucky to have lived. His options were nil. He had no choice but to defend himself with what he could muster. Was he fully prepared mentally, physically, and experienced enough with his weapon of choice? Only he can answer this. No amount of ammo is adequate if the weapon jams. At the distance he was from the attacking bear, his immediate action drill was probably what saved him. But would he have been better of with a revolver? At least he wouldn't have had to waste time clearing a jam. And there wouldn't have been concern for causing a jam with discharging the gun while pressed up against the bears head or body.

All of this is actually moot. Monday morning quarterbacking. He is alive to tell the tale. I wish him a quick and complete recovery.

All said, I would want folks to carefully consider what defensive weapon they carry in a dangerous game area. Whatever you decide on, can you use it efficiantly and effectively when it matters most?

 

[dfanonymous]

The evidence is there. He said the weapon jammed. He also guessed it may have had something to do with his grip. I've had my semi auto guns jam when not gripped correctly. I have a g20 and g29 and both are a real handful if not handled right. If you press the muzzle against an object as you discharge it, this can cause it to come out of battery causing a jam. Training to shoot requires more than a static target. Moving targets and multiple target engagement are invaluable to engaging a target efficiently and effectively. This type of practice also reduces waisting precious ammo.

All I'm trying to say is the op got caught in a really bad situation. He is extremely lucky to have lived. His options were nil. He had no choice but to defend himself with what he could muster. Was he fully prepared mentally, physically, and experienced enough with his weapon of choice? Only he can answer this. No amount of ammo is adequate if the weapon jams. At the distance he was from the attacking bear, his immediate action drill was probably what saved him. But would he have been better of with a revolver? At least he wouldn't have had to waste time clearing a jam. And there wouldn't have been concern for causing a jam with discharging the gun while pressed up against the bears head or body.

All of this is actually moot. Monday morning quarterbacking. He is alive to tell the tale. I wish him a quick and complete recovery.

All said, I would want folks to carefully consider what defensive weapon they carry in a dangerous game area. Whatever you decide on, can you use it efficiantly and effectively when it matters most?

You're right it is moot.

Imagine training failure to stop or el presidente on 3 targets bear silhouettes while on the move….as a line backer tackles you…

I'm being sarcastic. My point is there's not really a way to train for something specific like that outside of weapon familiarity and marksmanship. Even specific training used in many kill houses for training is not fool proof in real world events. And even more so when operating alone.

Doing el presidentes and shooting on the move while good for human to human contact would have been negligible here. It ended up being a near point blank head shot after being tore up and multiple shots fired.

 

[C-130 Dude]

You're right it is moot.

Imagine training failure to stop or el presidente on 3 targets bear silhouettes while on the move….as a line backer tackles you…

I'm being sarcastic. My point is there's not really a way to train for something specific like that outside of weapon familiarity and marksmanship. Even specific training used in many kill houses for training is not fool proof in real world events. And even more so when operating alone.

Doing el presidentes and shooting on the move while good for human to human contact would have been negligible here. It ended up being a near point blank head shot after being tore up and multiple shots fired.

Yup. Don't think we can find a volunteer bear for target practice. All you can do try your best to somewhat emulate realty. All while trying not to get eaten in the process. Sure am glad it wasn't me in that situation. Hope that guy is getting better.

 

[marksman1941]

A 329PD or even a heavier 44 mag is a handful if shot one handed. If that's what you carry try it one handed both strong side and weak side.

Came here to say this. They also recoil so hard that I've had rounds back out of thecc bc are and jam up the cylinder. Specifically, HSM 305gr bear loads. They're crimped but not enough, and twice I locked my cylinder when the last round backed out due to recoil and pinched into the frame. And I can tell you something, a jammed semi auto is much fast to clear than a jammed revolver.

I would assume the the second jam the person in question experienced was likely due to pressing the pistol against the bear and firing. It won't fire if the slide isn't fully locked forward, and it's not hard to see a scenario in which he's shooting the bear point blank, and shoves it into the bear as the slide is trying to close

 

[memtb]

Came here to say this. They also recoil so hard that I've had rounds back out of thecc bc are and jam up the cylinder. Specifically, HSM 305gr bear loads. They're crimped but not enough, and twice I locked my cylinder when the last round backed out due to recoil and pinched into the frame. And I can tell you something, a jammed semi auto is much fast to clear than a jammed revolver.

I would assume the the second jam the person in question experienced was likely due to pressing the pistol against the bear and firing. It won't fire if the slide isn't fully locked forward, and it's not hard to see a scenario in which he's shooting the bear point blank, and shoves it into the bear as the slide is trying to close

I'm glad that the recoil on my 460 isn't that severe! memtb

 

[HARPERC]

Imagine being tackled by something 6-700lbs while firing. There isn't "practice" in the world that will prepare you for not limp wristing that while in free fall.

In days gone by some handguns came with provision for a lanyard-LOL!

 

[dfanonymous]

In days gone by some handguns came with provision for a lanyard-LOL!

I still carry a lanyard (dummy/idiot cord) on me at work.
Little heathen kids in some of these countries will try to jack you if you're not careful. Then you feel bad if you have to shoot them.

 

[marksman1941]

I'm glad that the recoil on my 460 isn't that severe! memtb

I haven't shot a 460 so I can't compare. But I would rather shoot a 4" 500sw than a 329pd with the 255gr buffalo bore. The 329 is equivalent to a Glock in weight; it's pretty rowdy with the heavy hitters.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I haven't shot a 460 so I can't compare. But I would rather shoot a 4" 500sw than a 329pd with the 255gr buffalo bore. The 329 is equivalent to a Glock in weight; it's pretty rowdy with the heavy hitters.

That 329pd may be nice and light to carry, but using it may make you invent a few new words. But you gotta do what you gotta do.