Finer Points of Reloading

[jstanton]

This is one of the most common questions I get from guys that I build rifles for, how far down the rabbit hole do I go with reloading? I think on some level everything thing has been touched on in this thread.

A hornady case/bullet comparator
Also, see about sending a fired
piece of brass to have threaded
Bump brass back .002
(Full length dies will do this)
If you want to mess with neck tension K&M mandrel
AND a chronograph
The magneto is ok, is does do a fine job of reading velocity, however it changes harmonics in the rifle, if you can afford it a lab radar, that is the way too go.

Everyone else hit on the things that really aren't needed until you start getting into f class shooting.

Picked up a comparator set this morning at Academy.

I had a modified case made for each of my guns using fired brass.

The guy who builds my rifles recommended K&M also and that's what I am looking at right now.

 

[cajun]

So how good does your ammo shoot? The one thing I can say you need is a headspace comparator so you can set your sizing die to not overwork your brass. As for neck tension thats why I asked how your ammo shoots lol. Its a rabbit hole. For a world class F shooter it might be necessary. For a long range hunter maybe. Annealing brass, using bushing dies or a honed sizing button then a mandrel.

 

[jstanton]

Another thing that has helped me tremendously, is the Lyman Xpress case trimmer. It has sped up case trimming about 10x faster than my previous methods. It has also made it way less of a pain to do. You can pick these up for around $130-150 and it's well worth the cost. I'm not sure what you use to throw powder charges, but a Lee Perfect Powder measure can be had for $30 and is the best powder measure for the money. I used it to throw charges then trickle up on a digital scale. I have an RCBS Chargemaster now, but the Lee powder measure and a beam scale or digital scale is the best thing before getting into an automated powder dispenser.

I use a Wilson case trimmer. It's not the fastest but I really like it.

I use the RCBS powder dispenser and beam scale to throw slightly light charge and then I trickle the rest to get to my desired weight.

 

[Huntz]

I like to neck size brass for a particular rifle.I either use a Lee Collet neck die or a regular neck die (any brand).I remove the sizing button and run the brass into the die sizing the neck,I use a universal decaping die to get out the old primer.I then screw the stem and sizing button back in,but leave it loose or free floating.The button will self center it self and your neck will be straight.You can polish the expanding button for the tension you want.Polishing makes the tension tighter.When the brass will no longer chamber,I the use a Redding body die to resize.I put it right against the shell holder and resize.Then I check to see if it chambers easily.If not I screw down 1/2 turn at a time until it chambers easily.Then I do the neck as above.Bushing dies,mandrels,incrimented shell holders are all nice but really not needed.I do how ever anneal my brass about every 3 to 4 shots.Cleaning brass is a personal opinion.I clean after every firing.It saves your dies from getting scratched inside.This is how I do it.Opinions vary.Huntz

 

[jstanton]

So how good does your ammo shoot? The one thing I can say you need is a headspace comparator so you can set your sizing die to not overwork your brass. As for neck tension thats why I asked how your ammo shoots lol. Its a rabbit hole. For a world class F shooter it might be necessary. For a long range hunter maybe. Annealing brass, using bushing dies or a honed sizing button then a mandrel.

Good question! The ammo I've been making has always shot sub MOA as long as I do my part behind the gun. The consistency is what I want to hone in on with the goal of consistent 1/2 MOA. One batch may shoot .75-1 MOA and then the next batch with the same powder and bullet lot may shoot .5-.75 MOA.

This past year I have really worked on my mechanics behind each gun. Focused on building a solid shooting form from bags, breathing, and trigger pull. I feel very good about my mechanics and consistency.

My 6.5CM is my Texas gun. I use it for hunting out to 500 yards and steel out to a 1,000. My 7mm Rem Mag and 300WM are my Colorado elk rifles where shots can be up to 800 yards and steel out to 1,000 with the goal of getting to 1,500 yards which is the longest range close to me.

Also each of these rifles are customs by APR. The 6.5CM shoots the 140gr Berger VLDs and 143gr ELDX with Lapua brass equally well. Inhave loads worked up for both. The 7mm is throated for 180gr. Berger VLDs with ADG brass but also shoots the 168gr Berger VLD well too. The 300wm shoots the 212gr ELDX and ADG brass.

 

[taptap]

1) No. Neck sizing only can even be dangerous.
...

How can neck sizing only be dangerous? I'm here to learn

 

[jstanton]

As far as going down the rabbit hole, I am not trying to be an F class or PRS competition shooter. I want to make good consistent ammo in the 1/2 MOA range for hunting whitetail, muleys, and elk while also being able to go to the range and shoot 1,000+ yards for fun.

For the money side of it I don't mind spending it on good equipment as long as I will realize a benefit from it.

I enjoy the process of reloading and find it relaxing. I love learning the science behind it all as well.

In my mind the smaller I can get my groups, the more margin for error I have in the field if my shot is slightly off for one reason of the other, especially at any distance.

 

[jstanton]

How can neck sizing only be dangerous? I'm here to learn

The reason I originally asked about neck sizing only was that I read some reloaders prefer it over FL sizing because they say FL sizing over works the body of the brass and by neck sizing only you leave the dimensions of the fired case intact which are formed to your chamber thus making it more accurate/consistent.

I don't know if any of that is true and that's why I asked. I was taught the FL size so that's what I've always done.

 

[Mike Matteson]

1.) Stick with FL sizing and add mandrel expanding the necks.
2.) Bump the shoulders .001-.003 but check the brass in your chamber to make sure it closes without resistance before settling on a particular bump. With the dies properly adjusted you'll get the correct shoulder bump. Use a headspace comparator to find these numbers.
3.) Neck tension gets complicated and seems to be never ending. I would start by using the mandrel die to expand your necks after FL sizing and using premium brass to start.

4.) Your bullets most likely pulled harder because of cold welding of the necks. The copper jacket and brass case react to one another and will begin to corrode. There's a technical term and description for this, but essentially they weld together. I've seen it happen. The only way to stop it is dry lube in the case necks or don't leave your ammo sit for more than a month or so. I'm currently in the process of testing moly applied as a dry lube inside my case necks. I learned this from reading and watching videos on Lou Murdica's process.

As far as other techniques. The rabbit hole is endless. I honestly am starting to take some things less seriously and focus more on myself as a shooter and making sure I'm consistent day in and day out. Having your powder weighed to the kernel or your ammunition have zero runout will not help you as a shooter, it won't hurt either, until you're able to shoot good enough to recognize those problems. However, there's the psychological effect in that if you think a certain process/processes make you better and give you confidence, then keep doing that!

I like to advise people to add simple things to their process that won't cost an extraordinary amount, but will help for sure. The number one thing is a mandrel die. Sinclair sells them for like $30 and you can buy the individual mandrels from them or others for roughly $15 each for stainless and around $50 each for carbide. The stainless is great but you have to lube the inside of the case necks to prevent gauling. I also would get a set of headspace and bullet comparators as well. I also like to run a nylon brush inside my case necks before charging the cases. It has been shown by reloaders much more skilled than me that it helps. Other than that, I would continue doing what you're doing until you plateau or want to gain more consistency and/or precision. Learn everything inside and out then level up.

If you have deep pockets you can jump right into the most expensive and high tech equipment there is. You may never be able to take full advantage of it, but you'll never have to question your equipment. There's many paths to go down. I prefer to do the most I can with the best equipment I can afford. There's some really good stuff out there that's relatively affordable that can improve your ammo, save you time, and make reloading that much more enjoyable.

Sorry for being long winded. If you want me to explain more on what I use and what I recommend, or to explain more let me know. I can post it here in the thread or PM you if you're interested.

You did a great job of laying it out, and I have added some to my notes also. I am now at 27 pages on info to look at in reloading and everything else that's need to be done to create better reload. Acquiring the equipment especially top of the line does cost and can be time consuming too. As they say Rome wasn't built in a day. I'll will add a little. If was starting out again, I would get bushing FL sizing dies and using bumping system to size my brass. I had change a great many years ago using neck sizing die with my belted mag chambers. It did stop the case stretch at the base. Annealing the case stop the neck splits. Only to loose them to primers pocket stretch after about 10 to 12 firing. Annealing your cases will help on neck tension do keeping the neck at or close to the same hardness for firing. The other is cutting your neck thickness so they are even thickness all the way round. So the neck opens up evenly in the chamber. Bottom line all the trick things help to get a better round to fire with it going to hit where you point at.

 

[david g ranes]

The reason I originally asked about neck sizing only was that I read some reloaders prefer it over FL sizing because they say FL sizing over works the body of the brass and by neck sizing only you leave the dimensions of the fired case intact which are formed to your chamber thus making it more accurate/consistent.

I don't know if any of that is true and that's why I asked. I was taught the FL size so that's what I've always done.

You can get by neck sizing for a while then your brass will get where you can't close the bolt on it till you set the shoulder back some guns take longer than others I was loading shells on neck sized. 7 mag brass to go elk hunting years ago glad I tried to run some shells through the gun before I left most of them wouldn't chamber I pulled the bullets full length resized every thing was fine again I haven't neck sized since. David

 

[cajun]

You have a chrono? Getting your extreme spread in velocity down is very important. Consistent neck tension can help here. But some loads are just more forgiving. Primer and powder choice can have a big impact. Accurate, consistent powder charges.

 

[jstanton]

You have a chrono? Getting your extreme spread in velocity down is very important. Consistent neck tension can help here. But some loads are just more forgiving. Primer and powder choice can have a big impact. Accurate, consistent powder charges.

Yes, using a Magneto Speed V3

 

[jstanton]

Just wanted to say thank you to all who have contributed to this thread! There is so much good information!

 

[jstanton]

How many of you play with primer seating depth?