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FIELD TESTING SHERMAN SHORT ADG BRASS

I went out and fire formed some 7ss brass today and also some 6.5 SST. Now that the SST is fully formed with a full pressure load, it appears to be exactly 1.0 grain more capacity than the Norma. I only sampled 2 of each brand, but here are the results,
ADG vs Norma 6.5sst capacity.jpg
 
That is good. Gain a grain and likely pickup 5K + psi in case strength compared to Norma 10k+ to Rem based on what I have seen with the Rem cased 338SS thread.



I really think there could be value in that .375 as a short pack / brush / saddle bolt action rifle. Consider some of the most popular bullets for hunting are the Nosler partitions and accubonds. The 338SS 250 bergers EH loaded long 3.1 are basically @ 2900. That's a 1.627 OAL bullet. The 260 AB=1.39 Part=1.145/ 300 AB=1.52 Part= 1.335. That would allow watts box and acis DM to seat the Partitions inside the neck and only the BT below in the AB but either way would have the same powder vol as the 3.1OAL 338SS 250 EH load by Doc. I would not be surprised if it got 2700 from the 260 AB 22-24". Make a awesome hog gun down south as well. A nice 8lb loaded setup with a brake. 260AB @2650 still has 1800fps AB expansion threshold and almost 2K ftlb energy@ 500 yds and SS to 1K. Not bad for such as short big bore bullet and relatively small powder charge in a short light package.
 
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250s @ 2900 is right about where the 33 nosler runs em. If you throat for proper seating you can get a bit more speed, but that's f'n impressive for a case w/ 75 gr capacity.
 
ADG 6.5 SST pressure :velocity comparison.jpg
ADG 6.5 SST case expansion 60 grs. Retumbo:3063" 147 eldm.jpg
6.5SST 60 Retumbo:147:3063'.jpg
I got back out for a bit this afternoon to do a little more testing. I loaded up 5 different powders to try to get some idea about which powders might work in the 6.5 SST besides RL26, which is pretty well proven. The cases were all on their second full load firing. They were full length sized, primed with F210's, and all were loaded with 147 ELDM's at a coal of 2.775". I wasn't too familiar with N165 and it ended up being grossly undercharged. Below are the loads and velocities. Everything shot under an inch with 3 loads 1/2' or better. I didn't feel this was bad at all since I was shooting lying in the middle of a logging road with mosquitos sucking me dry! None of the loads were over pressure, with easy bolt lift, no extractor marks, and case head expansion was good. I fired some Norma brass loaded to equivalent velocities by loading down a few 1/10ths, since the ADG holds an extra grain. The higher velocity loads showed faint extractor marks on the Norma when the velocity reached 3059'. The ADG at 3063' still looked like new and bolt lift was very easy with the Norma load starting to get a little more resistance on the bolt, but not too bad.

52 N165 2777'
54 RL23 3035'
56 RL23 3063'
58 H1000 3017'
60 Retumbo 3063'
The brass shown above (top row) are shown R to L with above charge weight, but even the highest velocity loads still had round corners on primers. My Remington action always shows a little cratering because of the loose firing pin hole. The Moose is an added bonus for target shooting off of logging roads in North Idaho. This young cow had a calf with her but photographing at 25 mph while driving down a logging road with one hand, diminished my pic taking!!
 

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Things calmed down enough on the homefront last night so I was able to fire off 3 rounds I've had loaded for a week in the 300ss.
After I fire formed the brass with spare bullets I cleaned the barrel completely before firing this volley.
This load was mild to start with and since this brass has a little more capacity than the Norma it should have been even more mild which showed with my drop. The brass was loaded with 64.2 grains of rl26 under a 208 eld-m primed with a federal 210 GM.
On to it! The cold clean bore was the lone hole but the next 2 went into .7". Including the cold bore the group was still 3.4" at 513 yards.

20180710_194643.jpg


I'm hoping to have more time this weekend to test some loads out. I'm really hoping this brass will let me get a little more out of my 270ss. I have a good suspicion it will after a call with a little birdy earlier tonight ;).
Stay tuned I'm sure rich is doing his write up from his test today and it's all good stuff!
 
Today was a long, busy day testing. Since I wanted to see how many firings I could get out of one case, I was forced to pack up my reloading stuff and haul it up on the mountain. Its amazing how much stuff you need to make sure you have everything covered! I started by using a case that already had one full charge through it, full length sized it and trimmed to 1.950'. I chose 56 grains of RL26 behind a 147 ELDM with a F210 primer at a coal of 2.775". This is a fairly stiff PRS load at around 3030 fps. When I get to my private test site, I drop my F150 reloading bench down and c clamp my heavy duty bullet press to the tailgate. My plan was to load the same case as many times as necessary with this load until it was no longer able to hold a primer. I brought along a lb ea of RL26 and Retumbo as well as a couple of strips of F210's for my RCBS strip loader and plenty of 147 ELDM's. I fired the first round, measured everything including web expansion and case length stretching and full length sized , bumping the shoulder .002". I payed close attention to the amount of pressure, by feel, with my hand priming tool. The pocket loosened a little over the first 3 shots, and then seemed to settle in to a constant, still firm pressure. I chronographed the first 10-12 shots and found the average to be 3030, although later on as the sun hit me full force, I had loads that reached 3060'. The web stayed right at a fuzz under .552" after every shot and I had to trim the case after 11 firings. So far, no change whatsoever in any thing else, so I continue loading and shooting. When I got to 20 firings, I could detect no difference in primer pocket tension or any other problems whatsoever! The case loaded and extracted exactly as when I started. I decided that I would run out of bullets before I wore the case out and there seemed like no good reason to continue. AMAZING! Since I couldn't destroy the case with this load, I decided to really apply the pressure! I loaded up a separate case, that had fired 2 previous full power loads, with 58.5 grains. Yup, 2.5 grains over the last load. I torched this one off and rolled up 3168 on the magneto speed! Very little bolt lift increase and easy extraction with no witness marks on the case head. I measured the web expecting a jump in expansion only to find maybe a tenth increase. Ok, we'll try this one more time. I loaded another case up with 59.5 grains and light up the magspeed at 3215! close to a 50' increase just as usual with this powder. This time I finally feel some resistance on the bolt lift, but not that bad! The case head finally had a little extractor mark and the web jumped to about .5527" expansion. I took these 2 cases and punched the primers out, fully expecting to not have enough tension to hold the new primer, at least with the 3215 fps load. Amazingly, both primer pockets not only held the primer, they were SNUG!! I decided that this was plenty far enough to find out that these cases are TOUGH! In fact I can truthfully say that they are the toughest cases I have ever used. I don't recommend that anyone take this as a go ahead to run this kind of velocity. PLEASE DONT! I merely point this out to prove how extremely tough this brass is. Had the 3030' load showed more pressure than it did, I would never have jumped that much in the first place! Below are some pics that I hope will demonstrate the entire process and results.
There is good news and bad news here folks. The good news is that these cases are very consistent and will be give MANY, MANY, quality loads! The bad news is, these cases are so tough that I may not sell very many!
Something that comes up occasionally is the price per piece. These cases are custom and are not a shelf item so there is a pay to play factor. Down the road, I would expect the price to come down with more pieces being produced. Having said that, it doesn't take a computer to figure out that buying brands that cost $0.75 to $1.00 ea that wear out in 3-5 firings at much less pressure than this, vs $2.50 for cases that will run higher pressure/more velocity, and last XXXX times longer, is a bargain! Also, the consistency in these cases is VERY impressive, so accuracy is no doubt going to be as well. Now to get the tooling in to thin the necks down for a production run! I can promise that you guys who have ordered this brass will be very impressed!
Just remembered that my good friend Ray, this forum, did some high tech testing of this brass with a machine that measures in microns! I won't bore you with all the measurements, but suffice it to say that the tolerances are outstanding which shows up in every area of testing!
 

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Today was a long, busy day testing. Since I wanted to see how many firings I could get out of one case, I was forced to pack up my reloading stuff and haul it up on the mountain. Its amazing how much stuff you need to make sure you have everything covered! I started by using a case that already had one full charge through it, full length sized it and trimmed to 1.950'. I chose 56 grains of RL26 behind a 147 ELDM with a F210 primer at a coal of 2.775". This is a fairly stiff PRS load at around 3030 fps. When I get to my private test site, I drop my F150 reloading bench down and c clamp my heavy duty bullet press to the tailgate. My plan was to load the same case as many times as necessary with this load until it was no longer able to hold a primer. I brought along a lb ea of RL26 and Retumbo as well as a couple of strips of F210's for my RCBS strip loader and plenty of 147 ELDM's. I fired the first round, measured everything including web expansion and case length stretching and full length sized , bumping the shoulder .002". I payed close attention to the amount of pressure, by feel, with my hand priming tool. The pocket loosened a little over the first 3 shots, and then seemed to settle in to a constant, still firm pressure. I chronographed the first 10-12 shots and found the average to be 3030, although later on as the sun hit me full force, I had loads that reached 3060'. The web stayed right at a fuzz under .552" after every shot and I had to trim the case after 11 firings. So far, no change whatsoever in any thing else, so I continue loading and shooting. When I got to 20 firings, I could detect no difference in primer pocket tension or any other problems whatsoever! The case loaded and extracted exactly as when I started. I decided that I would run out of bullets before I wore the case out and there seemed like no good reason to continue. AMAZING! Since I couldn't destroy the case with this load, I decided to really apply the pressure! I loaded up a separate case, that had fired 2 previous full power loads, with 58.5 grains. Yup, 2.5 grains over the last load. I torched this one off and rolled up 3168 on the magneto speed! Very little bolt lift increase and easy extraction with no witness marks on the case head. I measured the web expecting a jump in expansion only to find maybe a tenth increase. Ok, we'll try this one more time. I loaded another case up with 59.5 grains and light up the magspeed at 3215! close to a 50' increase just as usual with this powder. This time I finally feel some resistance on the bolt lift, but not that bad! The case head finally had a little extractor mark and the web jumped to about .5527" expansion. I took these 2 cases and punched the primers out, fully expecting to not have enough tension to hold the new primer, at least with the 3215 fps load. Amazingly, both primer pockets not only held the primer, they were SNUG!! I decided that this was plenty far enough to find out that these cases are TOUGH! In fact I can truthfully say that they are the toughest cases I have ever used. I don't recommend that anyone take this as a go ahead to run this kind of velocity. PLEASE DONT! I merely point this out to prove how extremely tough this brass is. Had the 3030' load showed more pressure than it did, I would never have jumped that much in the first place! Below are some pics that I hope will demonstrate the entire process and results.
There is good news and bad news here folks. The good news is that these cases are very consistent and will be give MANY, MANY, quality loads! The bad news is, these cases are so tough that I may not sell very many!
Something that comes up occasionally is the price per piece. These cases are custom and are not a shelf item so there is a pay to play factor. Down the road, I would expect the price to come down with more pieces being produced. Having said that, it doesn't take a computer to figure out that buying brands that cost $0.75 to $1.00 ea that wear out in 3-5 firings at much less pressure than this, vs $2.50 for cases that will run higher pressure/more velocity, and last XXXX times longer, is a bargain! Also, the consistency in these cases is VERY impressive, so accuracy is no doubt going to be as well. Now to get the tooling in to thin the necks down for a production run! I can promise that you guys who have ordered this brass will be very impressed!
Just remembered that my good friend Ray, this forum, did some high tech testing of this brass with a machine that measures in microns! I won't bore you with all the measurements, but suffice it to say that the tolerances are outstanding which shows up in every area of testing!
Awesome information, Rich! Any word on when the brass with upgraded SS dimensions will be available? (Crossing my fingers for mid August)
I'm impressed with how durable this stuff is. Can't wait to get my new rifle shooting this stuff!
 
Awesome information, Rich! Any word on when the brass with upgraded SS dimensions will be available? (Crossing my fingers for mid August)
I'm impressed with how durable this stuff is. Can't wait to get my new rifle shooting this stuff!
They have to wait for the tooling supplier to provide the upgraded punch so it is a few weeks out according to ADG
 
Rich, that's what I call a torture test and an excellent report. One thing I noticed on my ADG 300wm brass was the primers seem to be easy to seat about 2/3rds into the pockets and then fit very snug in the last third. Depriming pressure was normal after 5 full house loads. Glad to see your results, even though mine are different caliber. That kind of toughness is worth the extra bucks.
 
Rich, that's what I call a torture test and an excellent report. One thing I noticed on my ADG 300wm brass was the primers seem to be easy to seat about 2/3rds into the pockets and then fit very snug in the last third. Depriming
pressure was normal after 5 full house loads. Glad to see your results, even though mine are different caliber. That kind of toughness is worth the extra

bucks.
The reason for the tension increasing as you seat the primers is they have some taper. Mine measured .0006" on a
spectrograph. My pockets at the bottom measure .2083" and I think most primers are around .2105"
 
Today was a long, busy day testing. Since I wanted to see how many firings I could get out of one case, I was forced to pack up my reloading stuff and haul it up on the mountain. Its amazing how much stuff you need to make sure you have everything covered! I started by using a case that already had one full charge through it, full length sized it and trimmed to 1.950'. I chose 56 grains of RL26 behind a 147 ELDM with a F210 primer at a coal of 2.775". This is a fairly stiff PRS load at around 3030 fps. When I get to my private test site, I drop my F150 reloading bench down and c clamp my heavy duty bullet press to the tailgate. My plan was to load the same case as many times as necessary with this load until it was no longer able to hold a primer. I brought along a lb ea of RL26 and Retumbo as well as a couple of strips of F210's for my RCBS strip loader and plenty of 147 ELDM's. I fired the first round, measured everything including web expansion and case length stretching and full length sized , bumping the shoulder .002". I payed close attention to the amount of pressure, by feel, with my hand priming tool. The pocket loosened a little over the first 3 shots, and then seemed to settle in to a constant, still firm pressure. I chronographed the first 10-12 shots and found the average to be 3030, although later on as the sun hit me full force, I had loads that reached 3060'. The web stayed right at a fuzz under .552" after every shot and I had to trim the case after 11 firings. So far, no change whatsoever in any thing else, so I continue loading and shooting. When I got to 20 firings, I could detect no difference in primer pocket tension or any other problems whatsoever! The case loaded and extracted exactly as when I started. I decided that I would run out of bullets before I wore the case out and there seemed like no good reason to continue. AMAZING! Since I couldn't destroy the case with this load, I decided to really apply the pressure! I loaded up a separate case, that had fired 2 previous full power loads, with 58.5 grains. Yup, 2.5 grains over the last load. I torched this one off and rolled up 3168 on the magneto speed! Very little bolt lift increase and easy extraction with no witness marks on the case head. I measured the web expecting a jump in expansion only to find maybe a tenth increase. Ok, we'll try this one more time. I loaded another case up with 59.5 grains and light up the magspeed at 3215! close to a 50' increase just as usual with this powder. This time I finally feel some resistance on the bolt lift, but not that bad! The case head finally had a little extractor mark and the web jumped to about .5527" expansion. I took these 2 cases and punched the primers out, fully expecting to not have enough tension to hold the new primer, at least with the 3215 fps load. Amazingly, both primer pockets not only held the primer, they were SNUG!! I decided that this was plenty far enough to find out that these cases are TOUGH! In fact I can truthfully say that they are the toughest cases I have ever used. I don't recommend that anyone take this as a go ahead to run this kind of velocity. PLEASE DONT! I merely point this out to prove how extremely tough this brass is. Had the 3030' load showed more pressure than it did, I would never have jumped that much in the first place! Below are some pics that I hope will demonstrate the entire process and results.
There is good news and bad news here folks. The good news is that these cases are very consistent and will be give MANY, MANY, quality loads! The bad news is, these cases are so tough that I may not sell very many!
Something that comes up occasionally is the price per piece. These cases are custom and are not a shelf item so there is a pay to play factor. Down the road, I would expect the price to come down with more pieces being produced. Having said that, it doesn't take a computer to figure out that buying brands that cost $0.75 to $1.00 ea that wear out in 3-5 firings at much less pressure than this, vs $2.50 for cases that will run higher pressure/more velocity, and last XXXX times longer, is a bargain! Also, the consistency in these cases is VERY impressive, so accuracy is no doubt going to be as well. Now to get the tooling in to thin the necks down for a production run! I can promise that you guys who have ordered this brass will be very impressed!
Just remembered that my good friend Ray, this forum, did some high tech testing of this brass with a machine that measures in microns! I won't bore you with all the measurements, but suffice it to say that the tolerances are outstanding which shows up in every area of testing!

This makes me crave 280 AI brass for the long action Shermans all the more. Not surprised by the results of your testing. The 308 brass I received from ADG is high quality stuff.
 
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