Eld vs berger extreme range comparison

[Brett Bracken]

I too am a fan of Berger bullets as far as consistency in weight and accuracy. My experience with the ELD-X bullets was very disappointing in that regard. They will vary in weight by as much as 3 grains in a single box. And accuracy at long range is so so. I find that unacceptable. The Bergers.....they are spot on.

However....when it comes to terminal performance at long ranges I have been extremely disappointed in the Bergers.....albeit my experience has been very limited to two situations. First....I shot a watermelon at 775 yds and the Berger bullet literally went through the watermelon like a field tipped arrow. Second....I shot a hog broadside behind the shoulder at 775 yds and lost the hog. If it had been an ELD-X bullet it would have been a different story but I don't have confidence in their accuracy.

Would like to hear from others as to their experience with shooting Bergers at long range game. I wish I could find a bullet that I could shoot with long range pinpoint accuracy like the Berger but would perform like the ELD-X on impact. I haven't found one yet.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I too am a fan of Berger bullets as far as consistency in weight and accuracy. My experience with the ELD-X bullets was very disappointing in that regard. They will vary in weight by as much as 3 grains in a single box. And accuracy at long range is so so. I find that unacceptable. The Bergers.....they are spot on.

However....when it comes to terminal performance at long ranges I have been extremely disappointed in the Bergers.....albeit my experience has been very limited to two situations. First....I shot a watermelon at 775 yds and the Berger bullet literally went through the watermelon like a field tipped arrow. Second....I shot a hog broadside behind the shoulder at 775 yds and lost the hog. If it had been an ELD-X bullet it would have been a different story but I don't have confidence in their accuracy.

Would like to hear from others as to their experience with shooting Bergers at long range game. I wish I could find a bullet that I could shoot with long range pinpoint accuracy like the Berger but would perform like the ELD-X on impact. I haven't found one yet.

3 grains in one box? I've seen a .4 grain spread but not 3 grains that's crazy! I got lucky with the last lot if 140s I bought. The largest variation I've seen in that lot of 500 is .2 grains. They are shooting extremely well for me at long distance. Those were eld-m bullets which also work well for deer/black bear

 

[tbrice23]

3 grains in one box? I've seen a .4 grain spread but not 3 grains that's crazy! I got lucky with the last lot if 140s I bought. The largest variation I've seen in that lot of 500 is .2 grains. They are shooting extremely well for me at long distance. Those were eld-m bullets which also work well for deer/black bear

Just curious, have you also sorted by bearing surface via two comparator bushings or base to ogive?

If so has there been a decisive verdict on which method would be better, BS vs B to O?

 

[Longshotjames]

in 2 years I shot approx 30 animals (deer,axis, audad and pigs) with 6.5 130gr VLD and at least 50% or more penciled straight through resulting in follow up shots or lost game. First I just thought I made a poor shot but after a while the problem came to surface, the "hunting" VLDs produced wound channels like a field tip arrow

Berger is a great company and assure me they fixed the issue, I love Berger accuracy but just cant take them hunting anymore.

Shooting 6.5, 7mm and 30 hornadys since then the last few years the EldX and eldM's are 100% in kill rate with just as many animals each year.
James

 

[Brett Bracken]

Thank you James for you comment....that confirms what I suspected....that the Bergers are not to be trusted for hunting which is all I am interested in. It seems the majority of LR shooters tout Bergers and rightfully so when it comes to accuracy but it seems most of them are only interested in shooting steel plates at 1000+ yardages. All I want to do is kill hogs at 800 yds but I haven't found a good hunting bullet that shoots as well as the Berger does at long range.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Just curious, have you also sorted by bearing surface via two comparator bushings or base to ogive?

If so has there been a decisive verdict on which method would be better, BS vs B to O?

I have weight sorted some of my hornady bullets as I've had lots that were less than desirable. I haven't done bearing surface sorting as I found there wasnt much difference in base to ogive measurements. I dont have another bushing to measure only the bearing surface.

 

[tbrice23]

Thanks, Mr Litz suggested that B to O is more important than BS for some reason, just curious.

 

[nmbarta]

I'd love to see a polymer tipped berger.
I've had some problems with bergers not expanding. There is no doubt that bergers are more consistent, especially from lot to lot.
If I owned a rifle that was target specific, I'd shoot bergers, but I don't.
I've found lot consistency to be pretty decent with the eld-x line, but have some pretty wild swings in bto measurements from lot to lot. That said, I just make sure that my bto stays the same and I've not had any problems.
Terminal performance with the eld-x has been nothing short of excellent in my experience.
Shots ranging from 120-920 yards with 175 and shots from 80-890 yards with the 162.
I suppose we've taken around 40 critters with the eld-x. It's been 100% reliable so far.
I don't do much for load development once I get them to 1/2 moa with low sd's, but do have a 6.5x284 that will shoot them in the .3's, so I think they are capable of better, I'm just not.

 

[nmbarta]

B to O determines your distance from the lands of your rifle. Changing bullet jump is going to change pressure and harmonics more than slight variations in BS, therefore changing poi more.
That's my take on it anyway, it could be bs.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Thanks, Mr Litz suggested that B to O is more important than BS for some reason, just curious.

I'll have to measure some when I get the chance. I've got some bergers and sierras on hand as well. Would be interesting to see the results

 

[Barrelnut]

I have two sets of Hornady LNL inserts so I can measure BS. I have done this frequently on the AMax bullets as the bearing surface can vary quite a bit.

But here's the thing I found out. Tolerances between different sets of Hornady LNL comparator inserts are not very tight. SO, make sure, if you get an additional set to measure BS on some bullets, MARK the one that you use to measure the seating depth etc. and only use it for that purpose. If you don't it will cause you problems.

BTO is definitely a simpler measurement. Maybe I will try to compare the two someday. I think Litz said the BTO is more important because it is harder for the factory to get consistent than even the bearing surface. I might be wrong though. But it might be easier to get a consistent reading on the BTO. It does take a bit of practice and feel to get consistent BS measurement.

 

[tbrice23]

I have two sets of Hornady LNL inserts so I can measure BS. I have done this frequently on the AMax bullets as the bearing surface can vary quite a bit.

But here's the thing I found out. Tolerances between different sets of Hornady LNL comparator inserts are not very tight. SO, make sure, if you get an additional set to measure BS on some bullets, MARK the one that you use to measure the seating depth etc. and only use it for that purpose. If you don't it will cause you problems.

BTO is definitely a simpler measurement. Maybe I will try to compare the two someday. I think Litz said the BTO is more important because it is harder for the factory to get consistent than even the bearing surface. I might be wrong though. But it might be easier to get a consistent reading on the BTO. It does take a bit of practice and feel to get consistent BS measurement.

I've been fireforming some 6.5wsm brass with some Midsouth shooters supply over run blem 140eldm and they shoot 1/2 moa at 200yds without any sorting.
Once they're all fired I'll look at my 140 eldm Firsts and do some measurements. Im on a fruitless hunt in TN now, so I can't measure and weigh any till I get home... will update .

 

[snox801]

Well to answer your question all you need to do is go to a 1000 yard benchrest shoot and see how many people are shooting berger vs hornady bullets. If you can even find someone shooting a hornady bullet competitively i will be surprised. Another thing you can do is weight out 50 bergers vs 50 eld hornady bullets. Bergers will win out everytime. It's to bad being hornady is only a couple hours from me and I have toured their plant. They have a nice facility and I'd like to support the local team but I just cant.

By that logic everyone should only shoot Cutting edge. Go from a 1000 yard match to the KO2 and they almost all shoot cutting edge.
I'm of course being a jerk here but still just because lots shoot one thing at a match does not mean it's the best. Often many factors come into play.

 

[shaughn]

Doesn't everyone weigh and measure the bullets used for long range?

Is that what I have been doing wrong...

Would make set up much easier, just grab a handfull and go....