Done with 215 Bergers

[Killertraylor]

I might as well be bringing up politics, but here it goes. I've been shooting the 215 Bergers out of my 300 win since 2017. Developed a great load shooting sub half minute at 2705 fps.

2017:

• Wife shot a cow at 260 yards. Didn't look for a blood trail because we could see the animal laying 40 yards away. Bullet worked. Wonderful.

2018:

• I shot at a cow. 300ish yards, poor rest, rushed/hectic shot. My wife, brother and I looked for about 1.5 hours. Couldn't find a drop of blood. No hair. Nothing. Three people looking all over for that long, we swore I missed. My other brother had a tag and ran off after the herd after my shot. He came back and asked if we found blood. No, we said. I guess I missed. He said alright. Let's head back to the truck. He started walking and we all followed closely behind. After a couple hundred yards he stepped to the side to reveal my dead elk laying there. He followed that elks tracks the whole way back to where we stood looking for blood and said that he didn't see a single drop. Granted this one is my fault; I hit it in the guts. I would still hope to see some sign of a hit.
• The next day my wife shot at a cow at 460 yards. She practices at this range all the time and I know she can make the shot. She doesn't shoot if she's not comfortable and confident. No sign at all of a hit. The four of us looked for half the day and couldn't find anything. She definitely could have missed, but after the previous day's display I would not be surprised at all if she hit it.
• Couple of weeks later I shot a cow at 260 yards. Ended up breaking the front shoulder and it only went 10 yards.

2019:

• I shot a bull at 40 yards. It ran maybe 70 yards with blood spewing everywhere and died. Happy
• My wife shot a bull at 260 yards and dropped it in it's tracks. Happy.

2020:

• This spring I shot a beautiful big color phased bear. 260 yards, prone, solid as a rock - I could hit a baseball with the gun at that range. The bear was over a hill and disappeared after the shot. It looked like I hit it in the scope. Walked up to it swearing I would find a beautiful dead bear. Nothing. No hair. No blood. Nothing. Looked all over. Nothing. Two weeks later I found a pretty monstrous (in my book) black bear skull in the same area. My bear? I'll never know for certain. Sickening.
• Monday I shot a bull. Thought it was dead. Walked up to it and it stood up. I shot it at ~30 yards broadside right in the boiler room. It flinched and kept standing. I shot it again, right in the boiler room. It took a couple steps and fell. I gave it 30 seconds and it was still pretty with it, so I shot it in the head. Still moving. Shot it in the head again and it finally faded slowly.

The first shot was at about 100 yards. None of the shots, except one head shot, had exit wounds. I found one copper jacket laying against the far side ribcage. The autopsy revealed that the internal organs were essentially fully intact. I saw no signs of the one "boiler room" shot. The other one, I saw a hole the size of my pointer finger through the lungs. I could barely stick my finger through the hole. The bullet didn't exit the far side of the animal, but penciled through the lungs - I would have expected to find a pencil exit.

I guess I'm starting to see why "not suitable for hunting" is stamped onto the box.

Unless somebody can show me what I'm doing wrong here, I'm pretty sure I'm done with the 215 hybrid. I might try the 205 Elite Hunters out. I'm also open to other suggestions.

I'll never understand why people hunt with target bullets. I don't care that someone 'tested' it and its better than sliced bread. I've seen way too many stories like yours. It shows a remarkable lack of respect for the ethics of hunting.

Spot on. Switch to Hammer Hunters or Nosler partitions and you won't need to post anything political on a hunting page ever again.

 

[loonie]

Last week cow hunt. 215 Berger from 300 win, 450 yards lung shot. Elk ran 50 yards, then took long time to tip over. Would of been Really bad if he would of hit shoulder! Bullet fragments were found on opposite rib cage. Another cow 480 yards shot with 175 lrab from 7 mag, much better results. I have not seen good results from just 3 elk shot in my party with the 215.

 

[Raudy707]

Last week cow hunt. 215 Berger from 300 win, 450 yards lung shot. Elk ran 50 yards, then took long time to tip over. Would of been Really bad if he would of hit shoulder! Bullet fragments were found on opposite rib cage. Another cow 480 yards shot with 175 lrab from 7 mag, much better results. I have not seen good results from just 3 elk shot in my party with the 215.

That looks awful!

 

[Pdvdh]

Last week cow hunt. 215 Berger from 300 win, 450 yards lung shot. Elk ran 50 yards, then took long time to tip over. Would of been Really bad if he would of hit shoulder! Bullet fragments were found on opposite rib cage. Another cow 480 yards shot with 175 lrab from 7 mag, much better results. I have not seen good results from just 3 elk shot in my party with the 215.

Meat shredders.

 

[jimirwin]

I get why people who have killed a pile of animals with Berger's are passionate... I don't get why people who have never used use them are. Do your own research... evaluate your experiences and those of trusted sources and use what you have confidence in given your needs. I haven't used Berger's to hunt in a dozen years. Killed 9 animals back then but lost one which was found days later... not far from where I hit him. Was hunting thick country and the 308 168grn hunting vld didn't exit... I didn't appreciate at the time that I shouldn't expect an exit and a blood trail on that bullet and gave up too easily when I found no sign of a blood trail. They did exactly what they were suppose to do. I just didn't fully understand limitations and prober application at that time.... But setting in on a 215 load for my 30 Nosler.

'Tis puzzling how folks want a big blood trail to help them find their game that didn't drop dead right there. I sorta thought the purpose was the kill, not the tracking!
To each his own.

 

[zach_destroys]

Thanks OP for starting this, and everyone that added their voice whether agreeing or dissenting. I read the entire thread and there is much food for thought here. I don't have near the opportunities that some of you all have to hunt, so I rely a lot on others' experience with certain bullets. What I have gathered again is there are people who want a pass through no matter the distance or placement, and those who prefer to have a bullet expel all the energy into the animal. And they want that mystical, perfect bullet to do what they ask at all distances and angles. The more I read threads like this, the more I realize you can't have your cake and eat it to. So where I primarily hunt, most shots are under 100 yards. And thick enough that a Blood trail is necessary. So Bergers will not be used for that application (or Hornady ELD-X). But if I hunted where I did several years ago, where a 400 yard shot were easily possible and it was fairly open, then I may consider a different bullet. The thing that makes it challenging is if we hunt areas where both are equally possible. Then you need to be willing to compromise a bit on bullet selection. Anyway, all good points here, and will be considering this more.

This is the same boat I'm in, where I hunt elk and mule deer there is thick dark timber, limiting shots to less than 100 yards, but it opens in many places to where 500 plus yard shots are possible. I've had good luck with Norma bondstrikes at closer ranges so far. We will see what happens when the long shots occur.

 

[Raudy707]

Seldom does a black bear or wild hog fall over and die where I hunt them. Unless you head shoot or get the central nervous system they are running. In dense dark timber or brush. Blood trails are essential for me. Recovery typically takes a dog or me on my hands and knees with a headlamp. When there's a bear or big boar that's hit out there I sure hope he's dead. But they will cover some ground. And a bear can plug a bullet hole like no other. Hammers and Accubonds or Partition's been leaving me good blood trails for the past few years with the pass thru hole. I moved up in caliber also for this reason as I have found. 277 caliber and up will not plug up as easy as my normal 257 and 6.5 hunting calibers. I really like 308 cal and up on bear.

 

[Quintus]

'Tis puzzling how folks want a big blood trail to help them find their game that didn't drop dead right there. I sorta thought the purpose was the kill, not the tracking!
To each his own.

For some the purpose is to fill the freezer. I have been very impressed with Bergers ability to kill quickly. Unfortunately, if you don't take the top of the heart off and blood pressure stays up the bruising is just too much for me to justify. The original Ballistic tips were destroyed for what is now considered elite on-game performance. If you don't mind grinding blood shot meat in with your burger they are perfect performers.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Step right up folks to the Berger comment generator. No need to think just throw a dart and let er' ride!

 

[Raudy707]

I get it. I know you can't have it all. But I'm sure trying. I'm developing my loads now for 2 bullets. I have it dialed perfectly for my long range bullet. Then I have my Hammer or Accubond set up for everything under 400 yds. My rifle magazine is with my close range bullets as a person typically has plenty of time for set up on a long range shot. So far, with hours of bench time I have a vertical difference of 1/2 to 1 moa at 100 yds with the close range load. It's been working really well for me over the past 4 years.

 

[sbruni]

'Tis puzzling how folks want a big blood trail to help them find their game that didn't drop dead right there. I sorta thought the purpose was the kill, not the tracking!
To each his own.

I'd venture to guess that there are more animals taken that run at least 30 yards than those that drop on the spot. There's really just two ways to kill 1) trauma to the nervous system or 2) cut off blood flow to the brain. An effective heart lung shot will only lead to an immediate drop if the trauma spreads to the spinal column. Truckloads of animals run a short distance with heart and lung turned to jelly...

So yes the point is to drop them right there but there is a high possibility that they will run a short distance... not a big deal in open country where you'll still see them drop.... if I'm hunting a GA hardwood bottom transitioning to CRP on one side and a standing cornfield on the other I'll use a bullet that will give me a pass through... but then that ain't lrh... but for a tx sendero that might give me longer shots but thick brush along the shooting lanes , probably not the right bullet there either.

When you golf you carry a whole bag of clubs so you have the right tool for the job... when you hunt you take one and manage around those limitations...

 

[Raudy707]

That's what I'm saying ^^^^ so I carry 2 types of bullets. Haven't missed a shot opportunity because of it and my results are exactly what I want. Aside from no lead in California. That's a tough one.

 

[sbruni]

Aside from no lead in California. That's a tough one.

That's an easy one... move to TX. Not that we need any more Californians but conservatives are welcome

 

[TSH]

A couple years ago I took my comp rifles and shotmarker to my deer lease to do some testing at 1000 yards post hunting. The picture is intended to show the backstop angle and the firmness of the soil, it is pretty hard high desert type of hard pan dirt, as you can see in the foreground. The target is in the red circle. I tested multiple rifles, all chambered in 284W and shooting Berger 7mm 180 hybrid target, all the barrels were either Bartlein or Brux and all the bullets were pointed.

On a whim I gathered up some bullets from behind the target and put them in my pocket. When I got home I did some examining, about half the bullets were in one piece, beat up and dented a bit but still one solid piece, and the other half were broke and bent at the front of the bearing surface and much more beat up. Of course I didn't think much of it, I just assumed they hit rocks instead of dirt. Upon further examination, every bullet that was intact had 5 grooves and every broken one had 4 grooves. This is important because the 4 groove Brux barrels are .001" tighter bore than the bartlein 5 groove barrels. Brux 7mm barrels are .276" diameter bore and Bartlein 7mm is .277".

I read somewhere, maybe this thread, that Berger uses .0005" thinner jackets on its hunting bullets. I have to think if that is true, then a .001" deeper cut by the grooves should make a significant difference in how a bullet performs when hitting an animal.