Do you really need a runout gauge??

[Hespco]

Back in the mid 1960's I purchased a set of "Lyman" 264 mag loading dies. Around the mid 1970's I purchased a set of "Pacific" ( absorbed by Hornady I believe ) .264 mag dies. As of this month I'm still using these dies. I have older rifles in 264 & newer ones. Using theses dies my rifles deliver excellent groups, some very tiny. The thought of a Concentric ( run out ) gauge has crossed my mind. Do i really need this gauge or do I just want to tinker for fun? I have taken numerous elk & deer with out the use of a run out gauge. Does the average hunter/re loader really need a run out gauge?? Also still using the same RCBS RockChucker press I bought in the first year of it's production. Am I out of step ? Besides saving money & allowing me to shoot more, reloading for me is fun, & has allowed me countless hours of enjoyment.

 

[ar10ar15man]

your loading process really has to load straight ammo.
if you are still pulling buttons thru dies/necks, and happy with where you are,
keep it up and don't ask.
buttons are well known for creating crocked necks.
run out gauge will confirm it, changing most of what you do today will fix it.

 

[Mikecr]

Well, if you want to learn about runout, there is a lot to learn.
I do many things I don't 'need' to do, just for the learning.
But I'm skeptical of this helping you & what you're content with. After all, if you start measuring this, you won't be content until solving what you got yourself into, and it's least likely to provide a gain in your shooting.

 

[Hespco]

Maybe I need a bushing style sizing die for 264, FL or neck, & see where that leads me? I'm not looking to win matches just looking to see if worth while accuracy gains can be made . I have my own range so can shoot at will. Every effort is made to wire brush, clean & dry lube inside of case necks to reduce the friction of the expander button before sizing. A dirty "inside" neck definitely increases friction on the expander button, carbide or steel type. For sure one thing I have is time to tinker.

 

[ar10ar15man]

as long as you are pulling a button, you are fighting an uphill battle

 

[Wolf76]

"Need" is an interesting word. Very subjective.
A runout gauge is a great tool if you want to fine tune your setup. I've never bought into the "I don't shoot matches" comment. Who here doesn't want their gun more accurate? You'll learn a ton how much runout affects loads. Anything over. 003" TIR is a practice round and you'll see group sizes change as runout increases. As a hunter I know my loads are top shelf and generate confidence because they concentric, super accurate, and fine tuned for each gun.
I've learned which dies consistently suck and when my load process needs improvement. The runout gauge made this possible.

 

[Buster Hemlock]

If your happy with what you are currently getting then stick with what your doing. Clearly you think there is likely room for improvement if your thinking about getting a concentricity gauge to evaluate your process. They can definitely help identify where your adding variations in your process. Pulling expander buttons is probably one thing that you will find increases your runout and having an effect on your accuracy but you won't know how much until you see what you are currently getting and then take action to cut down on it. I like to size my brass without a button and then expand the neck and set neck tension with a mandrel. Wire brushing the insides of the necks is something to consider changing as well, a nylon brush will knock off the loose build up and not scratch the insides of the necks. Scratches can effect the amount of bullet grip from case to case and could lead to additional variation in your loads. My process is deprime with a decapping die, clean brass, size brass, expand necks, trim if needed, chamfer, tumble to get rid of lube and any brass shavings, prime, charge, seat bullet. Just my $.02 but it's what I decided works for me.

 

[Tree Farmer]

I started reloading in 1968 to develop accurate hunting loads. I have recently added concentricity guages to check bullet/brass runout. My goal is tighter groups and elimination of the unexplained flyers. This has translated into more confidence when the moment of truth arrives.

 

[azsugarbear]

I use a concentricity gauge to spot check during load development. Once the brass/bullet is performing as it should, I rarely go back to the gauge on future reloadings in that caliber. I just use it for nee calibers.

 

[Hespco]

I just purchased a Hornady run out gauge on line. The guy states it is from an estate sale & new in the box. $69.55 with shipping. Guess I can't get hurt to bad at that price. When it gets here i will check my loads & see where they really are.

 

[Nate W]

Two questions related to this conversation so that I can follow and learn:
1) What do you mean by "Button?"
2) What is an acceptable error on the dial when rolling the cartridge?
Thanks.

 

[kai]

The button is the expander "ball" that's attached to the depriming rod. After the case is sized the expander button/ball expands the neck to the proper size to fit the bullet.

 

[Buster Hemlock]

A lot of full length dies squeeze down the case neck way more than needed. A buddies Hornady 300 win mag dies were necking them down to .312 and then with the button pulling them back out to .334 outside diameters. Runout on the brass was .001-.002 without the button but would go to .005-.007" after pulling the button through. The amount of force needed to pull the button back through the extremely undersized brass isn't even and pulls necks crooked. Most factory 300 win mag chambers have a neck diameter of .340". The solution is either send your dies off with some fired brass and have them honed or switch to bushing dies. Removing the button and using a expander mandrel is another solution but your still over working your brass and cracked necks will happen, most likely before primer pockets let go so brass longevity will suffer.

 

[L.Sherm]

A buddies Hornady 300 win mag dies were necking them down to .312 and then with the button pulling them back out to .334 outside diameters. Runout on the brass was .001-.002 without the button but would go to .005-.007" after pulling the button through.

These is exactly why I dont use Hornandy dies.