Disappointed with the Berger 156 grain EOL

[WildRose]

I keep hearing about how Berger bullets dump all the energy into the animal because that's how they are designed . Can some one explain about energy dump , versus a bullet that still has enough energy too exit .

Not that really makes any sense or that can be supported with hard data.

It "sounds" like a no brainer to put all the energy possible into the target and that if a bullet exits there is wasted energy but the animals we hunt don't seem to agree.

 

[FEENIX]

I keep hearing about how Berger bullets dump all the energy into the animal because that's how they are designed . Can some one explain about energy dump , versus a bullet that still has enough energy too exit .

The link I provided in #26 pretty much sums it up.

 

[chav0_12]

I keep hearing about how Berger bullets dump all the energy into the animal because that's how they are designed . Can some one explain about energy dump , versus a bullet that still has enough energy too exit .

Yeah, the Bergers are designed to maintain enough of their jacket to enter 2-4" and then violently expand (completely come apart), imparting all of that energy into the vitals of the animal. This usually ends up causing what a lot of people describe as "turning the vitals into soup". This is achieved by having a slightly thinner jacket than their match bullets. This means the totality of the bullets kinetic energy is imparted inside the animals chest cavity. There's tons of write-ups about it on Bergers' website and other media platforms.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

View attachment 338340
This is what you should be getting out of a hunting round. This is a 130 grain Federal Trophy copper, 270WSM.

At close range yes but monos suck when energy drops

I keep hearing about how Berger bullets dump all the energy into the animal because that's how they are designed . Can some one explain about energy dump , versus a bullet that still has enough energy too exit .

After many kills with bonded and target style berger bullets I've noticed a drastic difference in wound channel.
Bonded bullets are great at high impact velocities but they absolutely suck at long range.
At lower impact velocities associated with long range Bergers will open violently and throw shrapnel through the organs like a grenade.
Bonded or mono bullets will blow through with a relatively small wound channel that does much less damage to internal organs.

I'll take Bergers any day
BTW ABLRs suck bad

 

[Hard rock]

Not that really makes any sense or that can be supported with hard data.

It "sounds" like a no brainer to put all the energy possible into the target and that if a bullet exits there is wasted energy but the animals we hunt don't seem to agree.

The way I think if a bullet is coming too pieces before it exits it's shedding energy all over the place , not having the energy too break bones penetrate heavy muscle , hide flesh and organs . Too answer the OP,S concern I would like a bullet that creates a massive wound channel all the way through whatever it hits with enough mass left over too penetrate all the way through from 1800 fps too 4000 fps from point blank range too your minimum impact velocity ,whatever distance that dictates. I definitely want a exit no matter where I hit the animal. It's called margin for shooter error.

 

[Priley]

I shot a buck at 130 yards with my 6.5 PRC using Berger 156 grains EOL. I hit him right behind the shoulder. The buck ran about 50 yards with no blood. There was no exit wound. My Son and Grandsons have shot whitetail and axis with no exit wounds. Kind of disappointed with this bullet. My loads were going about 2860 fps and no exit wounds on that buck I shot. Looking for some advice as to what would be a good bullet to use that would have good exit wounds, thanks in advance

Berger bullet's are designed to penetrate around two inches and come apart basically expending all the energy of the bullet inside the animal. From what you said the bullet seemed to have worked and the animal only went 50 yards and expired. Dead is dead. Hunting with a rifle is not bow hunting. Razor sharp broadheads with very low kinetic energy are designed to "bleed out" the animal. Rifle bullets are designed to enter the animal and expand causing shock to the nervous system and a permanent wound channel inside the animal wrecking the internal organs causing a quick lethal kill. I have been using Berger bullets for years and rarely have a passthrough but the animals rarely make it passed thirty yards including elk and moose. This is what I have experienced in my 48 years of big game hunting.

 

[Bruce Treloar]

We used to have a guy here in Oz writing for a couple of local gun magazines who considered himself a ballistics expert. His favorite topic was how bullets mushroom and what damage they do. Someone in the gun trade picked me out to take him shooting in the field. I expected to come back full of bullet expansion knowledge but this guy was useless, he couldn't shoot anything and had to have game pointed out to him and still didn't hit anything.
This experience came back to me after reading most of the 14 pages here.
I was a custom bullet maker and Berger was my opposition so I am not pumping up their tires in mentioning they are making one of the best jackets for concentricity and using virgin lead cores.
One bullet repeatedly mentioned here appears to be coated with ********.

 

[WildRose]

One bullet repeatedly mentioned here appears to be coated with ********

Tell us about the bullet and your experience with them.

 

[FEENIX]

 

[centerpuncher]

I'll trade you 143 eldx for your 156 bergers plus I'll give you 20 bucks per 100

 

[GrayCreed]

Here's a experiment I got cooking up for the next month or so. 156's out of a 6.5PRC. Zeroed at 100 maybe 200, then putting out actual targets at 400,500,600,700,800. Doing up proper dope sheet. Run ladder tests and I'm wanting to do OCW also in this process. Now the experiment...Run some 124HH and a few 127 Barnes off that 156 zero to use between 100 and 300 yards if it's not too far off. My old 270 would pretty much shoot 140's and 150's on the same pie plate. So deer I used 140s elk the 150's. Understand this was my great greats, my greats, and my fathers method he-he things have changed in the last 90 years.

My goofy idea is to have a mono in the pipe or first one in the mag for short range and everything else is for long range starting at 400. If the point of impact isn't too bad off with those mono's inside of 300 yards I may just carry two mags, one with monos one for long range. Probably wont work but I'm hoping. I know those lighter bullets will impact different than the 156's.-WW

I can do that with my 7mag I have 140ttsx and 175 fusions that have the same zero at 100. The ttsx is a couple tenths (mil) flatter to 400 though. The 175fusion still has energy and velocity to expand on elk at 750yds. (At 8500ft) . The ttsx is 5.75" less drop at 400 which is about where I'd switch to the fusion anyway.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

I shot a buck at 130 yards with my 6.5 PRC using Berger 156 grains EOL. I hit him right behind the shoulder. The buck ran about 50 yards with no blood. There was no exit wound. My Son and Grandsons have shot whitetail and axis with no exit wounds. Kind of disappointed with this bullet. My loads were going about 2860 fps and no exit wounds on that buck I shot. Looking for some advice as to what would be a good bullet to use that would have good exit wounds, thanks in advance

hornady 143 gr eld-x

 

[Pdvdh]

I don't think replacing the exposed lead tip with a ballistic tip would upset the function of the partition.

Surely with the technology today someone can designed a partitioned style bullet with a better tip and better BC.

Completely agree. I'm confident a tipped bullet can initiate bullet expansion more reliably than the hit or miss expansion experiences with the non-tipped Burger style bullets, and equally reliably with exposed lead nosed bullets.

For smaller companies, I think the added tooling cost to install tips in bullets, and install them in perfect alignment, is a factor. It's takes extra tooling and time to prep the nose of the bullets for the tips, extra cost to manufacture or purchase the tips, and additional tooling and time to seat the tips. More complicated than stamping out a Burger-style bullet using a bullet press and bullet manufacturing die.

For companies that are established, and successfully mass producing bullets, that cost should be negligible over time. For smaller shops that manufacture bullets, I think it's an additional burden in time, materials, and equipment. And of primary importance, can they market and sell tipped bullets with equal profit per bullet compared to non-tipped bullets? That could be the biggest concern, and consideration... in the decision to manufacture and sell a tipped bullet, for some bullet manufacturers.

But for Nosler, should be easy peasy...

 

[Varmint Hunter]

There has been a lot of talk about how Berger "designed" their bullet to act on game. It's my understanding that Berger didn't design the bullets for hunting at all. It was devoted Berger target shooters who started shooting animals that determined how the target bullets performed on game. At some point Berger started marketing the target bullets as hunting bullets and put them in orange boxes, rather than their traditional yellow boxes.

Berger also started to make identical bullets with thicker jackets which were then marketed as their target bullets. Many newer bullets have been released over the years and there seems to be some overlap in design & application. Their 30 cal 215gr hybrid bullet is probably the most widely sought-after bullet for hunting, and it is not marketed as a hunting bullet by Berger.

Lots of controversy on the internet regarding the use of "target" bullets for "hunting" purposes. Berger has proven that the line certainly is not clear.