Disappointed with the Berger 156 grain EOL

[sp6x6]

Ive had bent and broken tips in my light 340wby.Partitions flattened and Nabs with the tips gone.Happens with hard hitting elk rifle.

 

[cornshank]

Ive had bent and broken tips in my light 340wby.Partitions flattened and Nabs with the tips gone.Happens with hard hitting elk rifle.

Yes ,it does , and they still shoot .

 

[WildRose]

Maybe not on the BC but it will sure help tip deformation.

I'm no ballistician but I can't see it being that difficult to make a bullet like I mentioned. Taper the jacket to get thicker toward the rear to control expansion and the the solid copper partition should help drive through the animal. In my head I cannot see a downside to a design like this.

If you make them fragile enough to guarantee controlled expansion at low impact velocity you end up with a flying bomb at close range.

I still think Hornady would have the ideal bullet overall if they'd used the same bonding method used on the Interbonds but I'm told then that at long range they could not get the same performance that was desired.

We're talking bout two entirely different applications requiring radically different designs.

Essentially you need two different bullets molded into one.

If there was a simple solution to getting that kind of performance someone would have already done it and would be crushing every other manufacturer in sales as a result.

 

[FEENIX]

Asking for a friend, does the tip increases the BC or not?

Check out starting at the 50-minute mark.

 

[WildRose]

Asking for a friend, does the tip increases the BC or not?

View attachment 338509

I would think it has to make some difference, how much??? Who knows.

 

[.300 Dakota]

There is a thread where @codyadams had shot a bunch of deer, elk, and antelope with the 156 and it performed very well out to ~900+ yards but it seemed that the 140 grain bullets stayed together and penetrated better giving exits more often.

Jackets may be slightly different thickness between the two. Sierra and Nosler were renown for putting heavier jackets on lighter bullets (i.e. the 120gr Ballistic Tips in both 6.5mm and 7mm, and Sierra the 100gr 6mm Pro-Hunter and their HP GameKing offerings. I have used all those bullets with perfect success from under 20 yards to way out with muzzle velocities north of 3300 ft/s. Pass Thrus on every one at every range and even with the little 6mm Pro-Hunter, the insides looked like the deer ran out in front of a loaded Mack truck going 70mph. I have had only 1 pass thru ever with an Accubond. Others may have different experiences. They are very soft and mushroom extremely well, but this slows the bullet down quickly in muscle, fluid, and bone. I have never failed to recover a deer hit with one, but have generally always had them run at least a few yards unless hit in the spine. I am interested to see for myself what others are raving about on the Hammers, though.

It is almost the case that you have to sacrifice BC for optimum performance. I think that's why lots of those here like the Accubond LR. It may represent the best compromise without sacrificing too much BC.

 

[cornshank]

Asking for a friend, does the tip increases the BC or not?

View attachment 338509

Hey ,I like that idea , take the tip out ,then I can put whatever I want in it!

 

[Longrangefan1]

Sam Millard at Panhandle Precision does a very nice review of the 6.5 143 gr ELD-X. This may fit the bill for your BC and exit wound requirements.

 

[WildRose]

Jackets may be slightly different thickness between the two. Sierra and Nosler were renown for putting heavier jackets on lighter bullets (i.e. the 120gr Ballistic Tips in both 6.5mm and 7mm, and Sierra the 100gr 6mm Pro-Hunter and their HP GameKing offerings. I have used all those bullets with perfect success from under 20 yards to way out with muzzle velocities north of 3300 ft/s. Pass Thrus on every one at every range and even with the little 6mm Pro-Hunter, the insides looked like the deer ran out in front of a loaded Mack truck going 70mph. I have had only 1 pass thru ever with an Accubond. Others may have different experiences. They are very soft and mushroom extremely well, but this slows the bullet down quickly in muscle, fluid, and bone. I have never failed to recover a deer hit with one, but have generally always had them run at least a few yards unless hit in the spine. I am interested to see for myself what others are raving about on the Hammers, though.

It is almost the case that you have to sacrifice BC for optimum performance. I think that's why lots of those here like the Accubond LR. It may represent the best compromise without sacrificing too much BC.

As much as I like Hornady as a company given a choice between the ABLR and ELD-X the ABLR gets the nod from me.

Of course, I trust the Interbond more than any of the newer offerings but you have to give up some weight and BC to shoot them.

 

[Prieto9000]

To do that though would produce such a compromise in the end It would end up probably being less suitable for either purpose.

Long range Hybrid and VLD type bullets are just such a completely different animal I don't think anyone is going to be able to give them the same properties as a bullet like the Partition that all but guarantees to penetrate the toughest of critters and still retain close to 50% of it's original mass.

I still think Hornady really blew it not using the same bonding tech of the Interbond in producing their ELD-X.

Mabe because the bonding process for some reason makes bullets harder to shoot. I've had a lot of rifles that won't shoot interbonds sub moa, and most rifles are sub moa capable with eldx´s and eldm´s. I believe they are the easiest bullets to tune.

 

[Prieto9000]

aaa

 

[chav0_12]

To do that though would produce such a compromise in the end It would end up probably being less suitable for either purpose.

Long range Hybrid and VLD type bullets are just such a completely different animal I don't think anyone is going to be able to give them the same properties as a bullet like the Partition that all but guarantees to penetrate the toughest of critters and still retain close to 50% of it's original mass.

I still think Hornady really blew it not using the same bonding tech of the Interbond in producing their ELD-X.

They didn't bond the ELD-X because they wanted it to still expand at 1500 FPS, or whatever it is that they claim it can expand at. The reality of it is that bonded bullets just don't expand as well at lower velocities as standard cup and core bullets do. Nosler says they did it with the ABLR at 1300 FPS but I honestly haven't seen any proof of that anywhere. I'm assuming this is the reason they didn't bond the ELD-X. I could be wrong, and I'd love to hear other opinions on it though.

 

[WildRose]

They didn't bond the ELD-X because they wanted it to still expand at 1500 FPS, or whatever it is that they claim it can expand at. The reality of it is that bonded bullets just don't expand as well at lower velocities as standard cup and core bullets do. Nosler says they did it with the ABLR at 1300 FPS but I honestly haven't seen any proof of that anywhere. I'm assuming this is the reason they didn't bond the ELD-X. I could be wrong, and I'd love to hear other opinions on it though.

I had some pretty impressive results shooting the ABLR at sub 200yds and well beyond 800 in the 7mm STW.

I tried some with the 6.5LRM which is really hard on bullets because it will send the 140's around 3,400fps. Again good results. They were pretty soft and expanded a lot at the sub 200yds ranges but I still got decent expansion beyond 800yds.

Hornady could do this with the ELD-X but I was told they didn't feel it was necessary and that it would have driven the cost up.

I'd still rather shoot the Interbond for predictability but they aren't listening.

 

[Hard rock]

They didn't bond the ELD-X because they wanted it to still expand at 1500 FPS, or whatever it is that they claim it can expand at. The reality of it is that bonded bullets just don't expand as well at lower velocities as standard cup and core bullets do. Nosler says they did it with the ABLR at 1300 FPS but I honestly haven't seen any proof of that anywhere. I'm assuming this is the reason they didn't bond the ELD-X. I could be wrong, and I'd love to hear other opinions on it though.

I haven't gone through all 7 pages of this post, so this may have been covered. I listened to a Gunwerks podcast with Aaron Davidson talking about bullet performance. The one statement he made that surprised me was when using Berger bullets, he always aimed for bone. He has killed a lot of animals with Berger's and found this worked best. On a side note,140 gr VLD just seems to be a perfect bullet in performance in the 6.5mm caliber. Sometimes stars align and we don't exactly know why it's better than others. That being said, I switched over to Hammer bullets in all my rifles and haven't looked back.

I keep hearing about how Berger bullets dump all the energy into the animal because that's how they are designed . Can some one explain about energy dump , versus a bullet that still has enough energy too exit .