Disappointed in non-resident hunters

[Mike Matteson]

I been hunting in 8 different states over my life time. Camp, Backpacked in and horse back into our state and federal lands over the years. I and others, that I camp with always picked up the area before and after camping in that spot. As a Scout Master I taught how to do low impact camping. A lot of people live like pigs. The Scouts can be pigs too. They shot glass bottles and leave the broken glass laying on the ground. These mess will be their forever, and where kid will have a chance to get cut up. It's to bad. So the next time you camp out, be sure and bring your trash bags and clean up the messes left behind so you leave it better than when you got there. That life! (Thank God for Plastic)(A deposit on the bottles goes a long way to help keep the messes down also).

 

[Barehandlineman11]

Anti-hunting demonstrators, perhaps?

No I killed a bull in front of them last year. I spotted him night before and went down several hours before day light. Beat them down canyon. They were above me. My buddies came to help saw there jeep. When we got bull out jeep was gone and tire slashed this year same jeep

 

[Ranchdog]

This thread has been a wonderful read today as time has allowed. I would like to mention that I have taken time to read and think upon the prose that has been spoken in regards to my comments earlier today as requested. I am never opposed to a good hearty debate with respect and clarity of thought. As I lead off, my comments may have been read with a lens of misunderstanding of the original post which drew my position off topic. Am I a rancher, yes. Am I an avid hunter an outdoorsman, yes. I do believe the two can coexist to create land that provides beneficial habitat for wildlife that we love to hunt. Cattle, horses, pivots and even sheep all have their place as well as corn, wheat, soybean and sunflower, this is how we strive to feed our country and the world. The issues that arise that many of us stand juxtaposed, is the management of these resources and assets.

Range animals through out our country when managed properly with the land can actually create habitat that makes wildlife thrive. The problem is many ranchers and farmers have tried to spread themselves too thin. When you believe that you can run 350 head of pairs in a range land that requires roughly 26 acres per pair, and you have ground that can only support 200-250, and you are depending on a wet year where you grass has multiple green-ups, or potential leases that many times fall through based on AUM costs, often you will get stuck in a dry year such as this where you completely over graze and make your place look like a "Dust Bowl." Do I believe that many ranchers create more problems for the ecosystem, that is a resounding yes. Is this the blanket we all huddle under, no.

I personally hold steadfast to the rotational grazing programs that create sustainability through lean years on private ground and Forest Service. Throughout my life I have worked for ranchers that have taken every ounce they can of grass from pastures and Forest Service Leases and yes the wildlife habitat is drastically damaged and makes survival migration ruin many of our previous lush hunting grounds. I have also worked for people who have a carrying capacity of 1800 pairs and have managed the place to a profitable, sustainable operation running 1300 pair and in so doing have created wonderful habitat for wildlife. I have seen the 20-30 day rotational grazing periods work first hand and it makes grass readily available even on dry years. FSA, NRCS and FWP have programs, grants, and education made available to anyone who is willing to change their methodology and branch out of the narrow-minded, old-school stretch it all one day short of broke mindset. Management of resources is what is truly the problem in our country, our hunting grounds, grasslands, and wallets it is not the cows, horses and pivots. This is evident even in our households, the American dream, lets over leverage ourselves with debt to create the life that we must have.

I do apologize sincerely if my comments we taken out of context but I will always call a spade a spade and the hunters, travelers, and locals that do not realize their actions can carry massive repercussions to our habitats should always be the domestic enemy for us outdoorsmen and women. Utter disregard to private property, laws, Fire Bans, zoning regulations, and small town community establishments is what draws my ire. Every state experiences out of state hunters and travelers as aforementioned we are a fluid society. However it is our responsibility to hold those that are out of line accountable for their actions. Happy Hunting this Fall everyone and per my original post, Call in the violations of Burn Bans and don't use my driveway as basecamp.

 

[GonzoK34]

I live in Alpine, California and have all my life. Raised my family here. Growing up here my parents were poor working class. Just about any weekend my Dad piled us in his car and we went fishing at the beach. With overtime pay my Dad would take us fishing/camping at a local lake. We hunted rabbits, doves, quail pheasants, etc. He made sure we picked up our trash. Leave No Trace before it became popular. He would take his belt to us if we were disrespectful to anyone. He taught me to hunt and took me to hunter safety training. He was with me when I shot my first deer. All those life experiences saved my life when I became an adult serving my country. When after 3 combat tours in Vietnam and coming home. I was messed up bad! Things were not going well. Southwestern Utah was a place my Dad and I had hunted as a teenager. I spent 4 months in the backcountry to get myself together. At the time it wasn't the right thing to do. But, I love that Country. So I go back every chance I get. Yes I am a NonRes and still prefer it to Calif. SEMPER FEDELIS

 

[nmbarta]

Hunting became profitable, it used to be cheap meat, now it's an expensive sport for most. Those looking for cheap meat and those looking to boost their ego are very different people playing the same game. They're not likely going to get along.
Not all, but many that paid thousands for a hunt don't plan on going home empty-handed and they'll step on toes to make sure that doesn't happen. I wouldn't know, but I'd assume tag soup tastes really bad when it costs hundreds or thousands of dollars.
Heck I don't even know what cheap tag soup tastes like and don't plan on finding out!
It doesn't matter where your from, there's bad folks everywhere. Sucks that some of them like to hunt.

 

[rammac]

not surprised, so to be clear, there is great public land that is boxed in by large private ranches so no regular person can go on it? how the heck did they get that thru the legislature? holy crap, what a crime!,,, it seems to effectively give the land to the large private land owners/ranchers? you are making my points for me now about ranchers,,,, yet another reason why ranchers and hunters are not on the same side. as for outfitters,,,I just gotta say it. around here they are known for stealing trail cams, blocking roads, running off exeptional animals so no one else can get a shot. i am sure there are some honest ones but all in all,, the outfitter industry is all about the dollar and doesn't really care about the future of hunting, (unless they can get a huge payday from it)

Thanks for proving my point about the narcissistic attitude of the average American.

You guys are all upset that people don't follow the laws about fires but you have no problem with the idea of breaking the laws in regards to trespassing on private property.

This is what's wrong with most people today, as long as a law suites you it's a good law, but when it interferes with what you want to do then it's a bad law.

All these guys whining about the corner crossing laws never mention that all they have to do is ask for permission to cross the private land and most often they'll get permission if they had the gonads to ask.

 

[Pmacc60]

It's hard to understand some hunters and their behavior . I have noticed that hunters in general have developed poor manners over the years , whether it's in the field or on forums. I don't know if this trend will ever recover to what we all knew 40 years ago. Deer and elk hunting seems to bring out the worst in people, it wasn't always like that. Skin or no skin in the game , respect is respect ! Respect the land , your fellow hunters ! Respect others property and learn or be aware of the regions culture. Remember however there is a learning curve and your never going to make all around you happy. There are hunters who will hate you if only because your there and that's never going to change nor can it be. I've read enough to see it here on this thread , disrespect or look down on a Hunter because of his license plate.... really!

I have hunted several different states , Md , Delaware , Pennsylvania , New York , Maine , New Jersey , West Virginia ,Colorado , Montana and Wyoming. They all have their own ways and ideas on etiquette . Some areas are steeped in tradition , years of heritage molding and creating its own etiquette and rules. They work in that particular place but are laughable in others. We as hunters need to understand that we are guest and need to do our best to learn and understand a areas protocol . Know the laws, understand the expectations of the land owner and respect the other guy. Sometimes the other guy is the problem , we need to deal with that as well. I made a decision years ago that killing the animal was not why I hunt and I will not reduce myself to be successful at all cost. I know no matter how hard I try not too, I'm going to irritate someone just because I'm there. Live and let live , give the other guy the benefit of the doubt.Sometime the guy on the next ridge isn't a jerk who destroyed your hunt , maybe just like you he's a hunter just hunting.

A couple years ago I had a lease , it was in my area and I knew the landowner for decades. My two sons and I hunted it and were very successful killing some big bucks. The neighboring farm was hunted and owned by a family that had a son who was as poor a sportsman as you will find. He walked around the property in full camo ( Viet Nam era ) complete with Boonie hat , AR weapons and 45 holstered on his hip. You can't make this up , he would walk around jumping and moving deer on the property and several bucks we killed were a direct result of him pushing them to us. My youngest son dubbed him the deer molester ! This guy broke the law , trespassed , hunted the youth day ( he was in his late 20's ) and once I watched him shooting at does in the skyline and a neighborhood about a mile away was on the other side. This guy was as bad as it gets! Anyway I was working a creek bottom when I jump a nine point and shot him 3 times all hitting the chest. A couple days later a the gas station young Edgar ( his name ) again you can't make this up came up to me and ask what I shot. I told him it was a nine point and he said" I was wondering why you were shooting up the whole valley ?" I Realized then and there that in his eyes I was the jerk , the yahoo , the guy shooting up the valley.

 

[Coldfinger]

Just returned from a deer hunt in WY area 82 and I must say that as a resident who's hunted this area for the past 19+ years I left completely disappointed.
I saw numerous camps of CA, ID and UT hunters with open fires in camp while we have stage 2 fire restrictions in place. You can't even smoke outside of a vehicle during stage 2 restrictions. The state has signs everywhere stating NO FIRE, FIRE BAN ect and its virtually impossible they didn't know.
I also had both WY resident hunters (really disappointed) and UT hunters stop 50 yards away from me on two different occasions while I was glassing a small 20 acre BLM piece of ground and start hunting it - no etiquette. The WY guys deserve a good beating and the non-residents should just stay away...hunt you own state.

Did you inform the hunters of the burn ban? I'm from NY the state not the city and love western hunting when I'm able to make the 27 hour drive. I have seen how devastating fires are and understand your frustration. Obviously with the plates listed they are aware as well. Labeling all non residents isn't the way to go about it but what do I know. Just think a simple hey guys did you know there's a fire ban or simple phone call to authorities could prevent the next major wildfire. Just by intervening! No one wants to be the tattle tale but we sometimes have to step up to the plate to protect our natural resources for generations to come.

 

[Coldfinger]

I save the TIP line for whatever State I am hunting and will use it if I see anything that requires a call. The CO's are spread thin and if we help "tag" the bad apples maybe the rest of the barrel won't sour either. Over the years I have been threatened (that didn't go over so well), truck vandalized, poor etiquette and so on but I believe we have to persevere to insure the hunting heritage that we all want is continued. I carry pen paper etc to record whatever info I need to save for authorities. Cell phones are good but sometimes pen and paper is better. I've contacted CO's in the area I plan on hunting to see if I should be aware of anything unusual. Heck, I have been told of drug drop areas, meth areas and so on to be extra careful. We live in a NOW self gratification society and common sense and etiquette takes a back seat so someone can post up on Instagram, Facebook, the Look at me Kill photo and they don't care how they get it at your expense. I once had a truck block my freaking tent cause that was the only place he thought he could park! All I can say is keep moving forward and do what is right for hunting, fishing, camping or whatever the outdoor activity may be. I refuse to give up.

Best trophy photos never make it to social media but I'll post some here!!!! To say I understand the original posters anger is true the garbage in the pics was left by someone trespassing I found while checking my property lines. Yes well beyond the posted sign they tore down. I do allow hunting but this sure makes it difficult!! Not exactly what I wanted to show my son on land he will inherit.

 

[greatwhitehntr]

Thanks for proving my point about the narcissistic attitude of the average American.

You guys are all upset that people don't follow the laws about fires but you have no problem with the idea of breaking the laws in regards to trespassing on private property.

This is what's wrong with most people today, as long as a law suites you it's a good law, but when it interferes with what you want to do then it's a bad law.

All these guys whining about the corner crossing laws never mention that all they have to do is ask for permission to cross the private land and most often they'll get permission if they had the gonads to ask.

I don't think that's what he said and I do believe it's BS that you can landlock BLM land. I have ran into some crazy *** ranchers and farmers, I have watched them put up 50yards of 3 strand and no tresspass signs jus to keep people and dust down. I do agree not all are bad in general there are bad apples and stupid in all groups.

 

[greatwhitehntr]

I am the king of nocking on doors have made some good friends that way.

 

[chuckhunter3]

I didn't read all the posts but offer the following. I was in South Dakota a few years ago to hunt prairie dogs. I stopped in a Sheel's store and found a Weatherby rifle that I wanted to purchase. I had the rifle and cash in hand and when the department manager found out that I was from out of state he started on me about nonresidents coming out and shooting up the land and told about ranchers kids that were pinned in a pond by bullets while swimming. He said that a nonresident left a plastic bag and that a cow ate it and died. He was so nasty that I put the rifle back in the rack and left. Later I was in Montana and in another store and they were complaining about South Dakota residents coming up and tresspassing even hunting ducks from cabins yards. Another time in Wyoming a land owner stopped to talk to me and told me that they liked the nonresidents. It was the locals that were the problem. I had written permission. It is the same around here. Locals complain about New Jersey and New York nonresidents. Usually the only problems come from locals. I don't know the solution. We do post our land but have had few problems.

 

[Mike Matteson]

This thread has been a wonderful read today as time has allowed. I would like to mention that I have taken time to read and think upon the prose that has been spoken in regards to my comments earlier today as requested. I am never opposed to a good hearty debate with respect and clarity of thought. As I lead off, my comments may have been read with a lens of misunderstanding of the original post which drew my position off topic. Am I a rancher, yes. Am I an avid hunter an outdoorsman, yes. I do believe the two can coexist to create land that provides beneficial habitat for wildlife that we love to hunt. Cattle, horses, pivots and even sheep all have their place as well as corn, wheat, soybean and sunflower, this is how we strive to feed our country and the world. The issues that arise that many of us stand juxtaposed, is the management of these resources and assets.

Range animals through out our country when managed properly with the land can actually create habitat that makes wildlife thrive. The problem is many ranchers and farmers have tried to spread themselves too thin. When you believe that you can run 350 head of pairs in a range land that requires roughly 26 acres per pair, and you have ground that can only support 200-250, and you are depending on a wet year where you grass has multiple green-ups, or potential leases that many times fall through based on AUM costs, often you will get stuck in a dry year such as this where you completely over graze and make your place look like a "Dust Bowl." Do I believe that many ranchers create more problems for the ecosystem, that is a resounding yes. Is this the blanket we all huddle under, no.

I personally hold steadfast to the rotational grazing programs that create sustainability through lean years on private ground and Forest Service. Throughout my life I have worked for ranchers that have taken every ounce they can of grass from pastures and Forest Service Leases and yes the wildlife habitat is drastically damaged and makes survival migration ruin many of our previous lush hunting grounds. I have also worked for people who have a carrying capacity of 1800 pairs and have managed the place to a profitable, sustainable operation running 1300 pair and in so doing have created wonderful habitat for wildlife. I have seen the 20-30 day rotational grazing periods work first hand and it makes grass readily available even on dry years. FSA, NRCS and FWP have programs, grants, and education made available to anyone who is willing to change their methodology and branch out of the narrow-minded, old-school stretch it all one day short of broke mindset. Management of resources is what is truly the problem in our country, our hunting grounds, grasslands, and wallets it is not the cows, horses and pivots. This is evident even in our households, the American dream, lets over leverage ourselves with debt to create the life that we must have.

I do apologize sincerely if my comments we taken out of context but I will always call a spade a spade and the hunters, travelers, and locals that do not realize their actions can carry massive repercussions to our habitats should always be the domestic enemy for us outdoorsmen and women. Utter disregard to private property, laws, Fire Bans, zoning regulations, and small town community establishments is what draws my ire. Every state experiences out of state hunters and travelers as aforementioned we are a fluid society. However it is our responsibility to hold those that are out of line accountable for their actions. Happy Hunting this Fall everyone and per my original post, Call in the violations of Burn Bans and don't use my driveway as basecamp.

I am not a rancher nor farmer, but I do understand your problems and experiences with out of state and in state so called hunters. Most of the lands I hunted on in S. California was private land. Generally for small game, and birds. I would keep an eye out for people that shouldn't not be there. The rancher cattle and if out on a public road I would either if I could get the cattle back behind the fence, or leave somebody behind and get the rancher to help getting his animals in the field. Watch out for people that might shot up the ranchers equipment or animals. One of the things I did get to do was to shot their ground squirrels. In different states I have come across animals out on the highways (not open range) stop and worked on getting the animals into a save place, and let somebody know. A friend and I have a spot in Az that we hunt dove in a man front yard every year. We don't shot his home or cars. We pickup shell and leave the place clean. He wants to get the dove out of his trees because they pooped all over the place and create a mess for them. So we are not all bad.

 

[rockwind]

Thanks for proving my point about the narcissistic attitude of the average American.

You guys are all upset that people don't follow the laws about fires but you have no problem with the idea of breaking the laws in regards to trespassing on private property.

This is what's wrong with most people today, as long as a law suites you it's a good law, but when it interferes with what you want to do then it's a bad law.

All these guys whining about the corner crossing laws never mention that all they have to do is ask for permission to cross the private land and most often they'll get permission if they had the gonads to ask.

can anyone else call out this ********! it's not "whining" when you steal public land and we don't like it.

so in order to even step on public land, (that you stole) we, as citizens, have to have "the gonads" to ask YOU for permission? so the average american is narcissistic because you,,,, in a corrupt, greedy, very likely illegal, manner have blocked access to the public land that some would like to access? so we have to beg you to get onto public land that we all should be allowed on?

I can't even believe what i am reading

1. shouldnt' have to ask anyone's permission to go onto public land.
2. all the ranches i have seen, the houses where the owners live,, are set way back,, many times having signs that say keep out,,, or no trespassing,, or have agressive dogs,, or even a bull wandering around.
3. it's not like a **** residential street where you can just knock on the door,, most folks living in a rural manner, don't want some stranger driving up their private drive,, walking up to their house and knocking. good way to get a shotgun pointed at you.
4. most of the time, the ranchers in question, are going to be gone and not home, so how do you ask, what do you do then even if you have the gonads to ask. what about when you start charging fee's to cross the stolen access? that is what it is all about anyway

my god, you are even worse than all the liberals that want free everything,, you just want to steal everything, have control of it, and make other people beg to use it