Different lathe..... CNC teach?

[Trickymissfit]

one thing to keep in mind, if you are serious about a CNC or programmable lathe or mill is that the better ones are 440 volt three phase. You need at least eight inches of good re-enforced concrete under them with lag bolts! Most require a good pneumatic system to boot (plenty of volume). Lighter weight machines like a Southwest Trac might get by with six inches of concrete, and not much of an air system. A Clausing really needs the eight inches of concrete under it, and of course the lag bolts. You need the lag bolts to stress the frame of the bed to make it cut strait. Otherwise you'll end up chasing your tail all the time. Plus a strait bed on a machine uses less power to run it, and is proven to last longer.

gary

 

[lazylabs]

Is it true that it's better to have them on an isolated piece of floor? I am going to be building a shop in the next few months so I could easily form and pour seperate sections for 2/3 machine pads. I was thinking about doing it anyway just to keep it from cracking all over the place.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Is it true that it's better to have them on an isolated piece of floor? I am going to be building a shop in the next few months so I could easily form and pour seperate sections for 2/3 machine pads. I was thinking about doing it anyway just to keep it from cracking all over the place.

let me take you from the day you order in the machine, to give you a rough idea what the steps are. Then maybe you can make the decision. Most lathes do not need an isolation pad, but they still have their own set of issues which we'll deal with later.

Lets say you buy a new machine center from XYZ Machine Tool company. When you get the order placed and after they receive their first deposit, they should send you a foundation print. Some will call out a spec on an isolation pad, while others will simply say something like 12" of re-enforced concrete with a density spec. I used the same grade of concrete they used in road building, no matter how thick they wanted it made. But there actually is a grade that's better, but not needed 90% of the time. In that drawing you'll see the actual layout of the machine including stand alone hydraulic tanks and the coolant system if it's also stand alone. You'll see how they prefer the CNC control to be placed and usually give you a couple of options as well. They will also give you the layout for the leveling pads and lag bolts (this must be done correctly!) I usually got this print about six to eight weeks before delivery.

In the above drawings you can start to lay out where you want to place the machine, and of course start to build an isolation pad if needed. By doing this ahead of schedule, you actually save a lot of time and money. But of course do it right. Otherwise you'll have to move the machine twice! I've poured isolation pads from 30" thick to 156" thick (beyond stupid!) Bought rebar by the flat bed truck loads (multi at that). I've done rebar by the old wire it together method, and the weld it all together method. That welded rebar is better. Don't skimp on the rebar, as it's important. If you have an existing floor, and have to install a pad, keep in mind that the pad is always one solid piece of concrete. Never set a machine on a pad that's less than two weeks old and really a month is a lot better. You want the surface finished as smooth and flat as possible, and this alone will help your installation. Doing the pad of course starts with a concrete cutting operation (I always do it with a saw). Kinda messy, but the nature of the job. Lets say you need a 10' square pad 36" deep. For starters it's best you find a concrete company that does road work or something that is critical by nature. You'll pay a little more, but save yourself a lot of grief 24 months later. You figure out you best location (remember there has to be access all the way around). I always went by the rule of the thumb that said to tale the axis travel and add two feet to it for added room. This will save you from cutting a hole in the wall, or even worse (and have I seen this one in person!) OK we have the 10' square laid out on the floor. Now add a minimum of one foot all the way around (I always recommend 18 inches or more). Have you guys cut the square out of the floor and pull it sections. Now we dig the soil and gravel out of the hole. Go about 48" deep (more is OK). I always put a layer of pea gravel under the pad, and tamped this down to where it's fairly solid. Limestone works well too (wet it down and tamp it a lot). Now we start to build the frame work for the outside ring around the pad. I will use a little bit of rebar with this part as well. Then pour the outside walls (you'll want them strait for a reason.). OK you got that part done and they've setup for a couple days. Now it's time to get serious. Pull the frame work. The next step is to install an anti vibration material that sorta looks like generic Cellotex, but it's not! You can install this all the way around with a Ramset. Put a layer on the floor if it makes you feel better (I never did). Now it's time to start welding rebar. If the machine will have a coolant flood system that goes in the floor you'll have to take care of this part as well. I always used a stainless steel trough, and poured up to it. You want several vibration devices to keep the air pockets out of the concrete. I always used a concrete pumper truck. Now comes the tricky and also a critical part. You need to install the lag screws. I like grade eight all thread. Some manufacturers will send in their own style of lags, others will tell you what they want. Most are simply L shaped threaded rod. Put them in the wet concrete as soon as possible. Four inches above the concrete is about right with at least eight inches in the concrete. Just make sure they are 90 degrees to the concrete, and are located right! After the pad is poured you just wait. I always covered mine with a roll of plastic, and hosed the pad down twice a day with water. After a week or ten days you don't need to be doing this anymore. Now you just wait a few more days. OK we've been a week now, and we're bored stiff. Pull the plastic, and clean the floor one more time (no acids please). Wrap every lag bolt with a couple layers of Ductape. In the drawings you'll see where all the leveling pads are placed (some use wedges and are far better) Lets make good leveling pads! I usually used 3/4" pads, but 1/2" thick pads are fine for light weight equipment. While your at it, cut between four and six 1" thick pads that are only spacers to help you position the 3/4" pads during installation. Take each pad and run a two flute end mill in them about 1/4" deep with about 1/8" clearance for the leveling bolts. This way the pads will stay in place. Roughly lay out your pads on the virgin concrete, and mark the new floor with a spray can of paint or even a magic marker. Buzz this area with a body grinder and sand paper to remover any bumps (there will be some).

Now we're ready to set the machine on the pad (finally!). I always recommend hiring riggers for this work, as they usually will set the base of the machine without tearing up the lag bolts. (I had a team of seriously good millwrongs out of a Michigan auto plant that wouldn't even scratch the paint on the machine!) Now some folks like to use anti vibration pads ontop their leveling pads. This is good, and this can cause grief. I've tried them under the pads, and it didn't work as well. Plan on cutting a hole in them, unless you buy them with the hole in them. No big deal. Wedges are the best thing for machine centers, and use a good anti vibration pad ontop them (I like Machinery Mounts). Have the guys set the machine on the thicker pads (1.25" is about right for a vibration pad and a 3/4" steel pad. It is critical about where you place the thicker pads (I've even used wood blocks) as the machine frame will flex a good bit.

With the machine set, your work is just beginning! You'll need at least two .0005" levels that are at least ten inches long. But if you have to you can get by with one. After you have the machine on the leveling pads, and the thicker ones removed rough level it to about .001". Now the electrician can do his conduit and you can start plumbing it in. I always lag down the hydraulic tank (s), and filter units

It is very important that the machine frame never sets over a crack in the concrete! Even more critical with a lathe or a grinder! Otherwise they just move all over the place. Most CNC lathes work well with 8" of re-enforced concrete, but some of the bigger ones want 12". They really don't need an isolation pad. But grinders like the isolation pad. I do recommend that you recheck the machine level daily till the frame quits moving. The level is not aligning the machine to make it cut strait and square, so don't get rooked into that though process! It's just the start of things to come. I used a 12"x12"x16" granite H block for most of the smaller machines. But I had a 48" long cylinder square for the bigger stuff. I liked using Federal electronic levels after the machine was running, but a good laser will do just fine. It's just easier with the electronic level. Plus you can work as close as your heart desires. For just about anything anybody here will buy, the two .0005" spirit levels will do nicely, but also will not help you square up the column if needed

I know this post is lengthy, but trust me I just glossed over it and told you the easy parts. You can have five machines that are identical, and all five will level and align differently. Once again the nature of the beast. I would not bother to pour a pad for a lathe. Just a nice thick floor with zero cracks will do fine. You can sink high grade lag bolt anchors in the concrete (they get expensive, and you'll need a good hammer drill). When you new machine is delivered, either leave it on the pallot, or set oak blocks where each leveling pad would be. A warped machine frame is not fun, and a warped cast iron one is a beast to deal with. (often takes months to get the warpage out). Lastly, be sure to use jam nuts on every lag bolt with a cad washer under them. Very important.
gary

 

[lazylabs]

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate the time it takes to educate us that are unfamiliar with industrial kind of setups.

I will be talking to the power guys soon and will ask about 440 but at this point I am just hoping that 3ph 220 is going to happen.

Thanks again!

 

[westcliffe01]

For a small machine like the TL1, you can forget about the discussion above. The newer machines have massive castings that are much stiffer than one had on older machines. Yes of course it wants to sit on concrete and unquestionably, in a huge factory with forklifts and all sorts of heavy things driving around an isolated foundation is superior. However, for a home type shop with 1 operator, none of that is needed unless you live within 50 yards of an active railroad line or a few other funky places.

I know of many shops operating machines larger than the TL-1 where you will not find a single lag bolt and in fact they often change the layout of the shop every 6 months. Not an ideal situation, but they still produce parts that satisfy the customers. If your customers are having you make parts for turbines and you have to machine superalloys, yes you probably need every trick in the book to get it right and make money doing it. Which is what kept people like Trickymissfit occupied over a lengthy period.

However, none of the esoteric stuff is needed to turn out bolt gun receivers...

 

[shortgrass]

If you can get 230V 3ph. coming in, all it'll take is a transformer with a good line conditioner. What kind of gunsmithing work are you planning on doing, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[lazylabs]

I am doing just general gunsmithing stuff and building other things at random. I have a chance to step up from pure manual to a hybrid lathe and want to do it the right way. I wouldn't call tricky's suggestions B.S....... there is a best/ideal way to do things. He did mention that a normal reinforced concrete floor would be sufficient. If I am building a floor from scratch with the intent of placing machine tools it requires no extra work to build isolated pads for each. If that offers any advantage It seems like the prudent thing to do. I think I will end up in the middle...... I am going to get as much power as I can to the "shop", once again get all you can the first time and try to prevent re-work. I am going to pour a sectioned floor 3/4 work places in one end and the rest of it in one piece but thicker than a "standard" garage floor. I am not a "pro" but I did stay at a holiday inn express'.... and have barreled enough guns that shoot under 1/2" to want to build more and get better! I just enjoy building guns to the best of my ability, might as well try every method that is available to you.........

 

[westcliffe01]

I didn't call BS on anything, but if you look at the images at Haascnc.com, they clearly show the TL-1 standing on 4 isolation pads (which also level it) on a regular concrete floor. This is the way all of the smaller machines are handled nowadays. It is mainly large equipment and super precision stuff that requires custom foundations. Manufacturing companies generally no longer accept the limitation imposed by dedicated foundations, it makes their operation too inflexible.

Tricky spent his life working for companies who spent big bucks to make product that cost big bucks but which had to be made just so... Today the majority of us find ourselves at the opposite end of the spectrum where the product is expected to be 1 step away from being free... We can't do things the way Trickys employers did them since we would be bankrupt... and of course many are or are in the process of circling the drain.

 

[lazylabs]

Well since I only have to satisy one bitchy stock holder(and trigger puller) I will do things the best way possible. I will build this shop once and not be forced to change it(or financially able to) for many years, I plan to spend the extra and do it the best possible way to start with. I can't afford the best of the best $bazillion machine but I can spend the extra kilobuck to get the very best out of the machine that I can afford. It seems silly to spend $50K on machine tools and skimp on the $5k in concrete/planning/execution that makes a final difference. I am certainly biased as I just moved from a garage with a floor that looked like a jigsaw puzzle designed by someone with ADD and multiple personalities....... ugly

 

[Trickymissfit]

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate the time it takes to educate us that are unfamiliar with industrial kind of setups.

I will be talking to the power guys soon and will ask about 440 but at this point I am just hoping that 3ph 220 is going to happen.

Thanks again!

I've probably installed 250 machines in my lifetime, and maybe a few more. I really have not done all that much work with grinders, other than some very precision gear grinders. So I've felt that grinders (specially external grinders) have been a hole in my resume. Over the last half of my time, I did a two to one ratio of machine centers to everything else. But when you build machines you think differently than most people in that everything you look at is just bearings, shafts, and gears with an occasional hydraulic cylinder added into the mix. I also didn't do as much robotics as I probably should have done, but still did my share. I hate them!

One thing that 75% of all process engineers do that will sooner or later bite them really hard is to order in a machine that is just capable of doing the job at the time. They rarely ever over spec the machine and look on down the road. I'm a believer in the minimum of a 2:1 over build factor, and really think 3:1 is great. I've seen more than one engineer loose his job over these issues alone. If your spec is to work within a +/- .001" window, then but a machine that will do +/- .0005". You'll find it far easier to work with, and you'll be eating a lot less Malox!

The brand you buy is of course up to you. I have my preferences of course, and you all have heard them in the past. Most of these are from experience, and often failures on somebody else's errors. After awhile I often was tasked with doing an unannounced visit to a machine builder to inspect his progress, and also a pre-ship inspection of the goods plus doing runoffs of parts they planned on machining. Most builders hated me! I'd catch them cutting corners, and building equipment that was just plain junk! I remember one time when my boss asked me to go down to the docks and look over five Makino machine centers that were bought with TACOM money. The trucks were still in the parking lot waiting for us to sign off on them. I looked them over, and saw no damage, but readily saw that the machines were not built to OSHA safety specs (mostly electrical). Wouldn't accept them! The dock foreman said he was signing off on them anyway, and I called my boss to get down there asap. He showed up with the electricians boss, and I showed them what I saw right away. We wouldn't accept them. The Dock Foreman signed off on them, and was fired the next morning. Tacom made Makino fix the machines while they were still on the pallots in an area that wasn't being used. Later we find that two process engineers waived the safety specs, and they too were unemployed. After we finally got the machines set, and fired up I found several other engineering errors that were just plain dangerous to the end users. I fixed them, and sent them the bill. Which they gladly paid. I will give LeBlond Makino that credit for standing up to their errors. The worst to stand behind their products are from Switzerland in my book, with the Germans right behind them. Some groups out of those places are very good, and some are extremely suspect. Okamoto out of Japan is very good, and will back up their products long out of warranty. Okuma is somewhat suspect even though they do build a fairly good lathe (has some issues). Mori Seiki is a junk yard building junk! Mazaks run well, but are not built as well as Okumas. You'll find this out with a good wreck (they all will have a wreck sooner or later). The rest out of there are third tier. The one exception to this is probably Hitachi. Their standard based machines are OK, but not great. Their custom built stuff is first rate just like Okuma's.

In today's markets we often buy what is called a "turn key operation." That means that you give the builder the parts you want to do, and he designs and builds a machine system to do this work. You supply nothing but cash. K&T were long the leaders in this game by a wide margin. But G&L bought them up when they had cash flow problems. When you went in their plants, you saw machines being built for everybody. Some were huge and some were average size. Lots of FMS stuff. Their machines were probably built on a 4:1 overbuild factor (yes they were that good). G&L was a perfect match for them as they could incorporate several of machining operations into their FMS systems that K&T couldn't. Cross was also swallowed up by G&L, and now you've evolved from the big player to a super player. Cross and Lamb were the big players in the transfer machine groups, but Cross saw other venues and kinda left the transfer lines to Lamb (both were the absolute best money could buy). To this very day, a Lamb boring head is the best that's ever been built.
gary

 

[lazylabs]

Thanks for the info Chad. I have followed your post here for years and you posted to my earlier questions along these lines. I would really like to come see your shop some day.

What do you think of the victor DCL? I know it's not a "pro" machine but I still have a "day job" and can't really justify a huge bill for something that won't be making money at the moment.

I appreciate your opinion of going with a full on machine center but I can't swing that at the moment.

I am going to follow the advice of you and tricky and build the floor of the shop for the future. If I waste a couple grand in concrete it's better than re-work. Same goes for power...

Thanks

 

[Trickymissfit]

My name is Chad Dixon. I'm too lazy to log onto my account so I'm using one of my employees for this.

I'm not a sponsor on this site, but I've been a gunmaker since 1999 and helped pioneer the use of CNC turning/machining centers in custom gunmaking.

My shop is based on this ideal and I now have four machines used every day in my shop. We are successful. VERY successful.

You WANT a CNC. The tools are very powerful and if you spend a little time being creative, you can fit barrels to accuracy levels that will rival the best barrel fitters in the world and you'll laugh all the way to the bank because you'll hang more sticks per hour than most do in a day.

Don't be swayed and don't quit. Your onto something. I've proven it.

We can accurize and barrel over 100 barreled actions in a month.

Do the math. . .


Good luck.

Here's a teaser:

Imagine being able to accurize a receiver (M700 for instance) and fit up a barrel tennon in less than 20 minutes.

Now imagine having your ENTIRE reamer inventory cataloged and the tool length offsets PRESET so that you know exactly where that tool is. Now imagine just calling up that offset (T0515 for instance) and adjusting the Z depth for that particular chamber. Plug in your muzzle flush setup, RESET, MEMORY, CYCLE START, and go drink coffee and you chamber away.

Easy so long as you have the persistence to sort it out. You WILL run into challenges.

DONT GIVE UP and IGNORE the Nancy's who say you can't do it!


I'd suggest looking at slant bed, 10 position turret (minimum of 10 tools) production grade turning centers with A FANUC series control. The OI Mate that I have has been robust and rock solid.

I also encourage you to look towards Korea for machines. Daewoo and Doosan are both excellent pieces of equipment and you can get parts easily.

Others that come to mind:

Kitamura (I own one in a mill, its bad ***)
Okuma (as stated above, it's ok, but I loath the controls)
Matsurra
Mazak
Brother (yeah, same guys that make printers!)
Deckle (bring your visa. . .)

Haas is crap if you ask me. Castings are too light, and the machines aren't built for robust use. Talk to any experienced job shop setup guy or programmer and they'll tell you that when your cutting AL go Haas. When you cut STEEL, there are better options. Linear ways are for quick speed and cutting soft chit. BOX ways are for machining tool grade steels.

Harrison Alphas? I set up the 3rd one in the United States. The Harrison Alpha 1330U to be specific. ONCE the metric/imperial algorithms were sorted out so that the carriage didn't rapid intermittently towards the spindle and ONCE the Troyke turret finally repeated and ONCE the spindle stopped disassembling itself (Tapered Gamut spindle bearings, uhh, no thanks- least thats how it was back in 03/04) the machine wasn't TOO bad so long as you kept the depth of cut, feed rate, and SFM conservative. (like stupid conservative).

My advise: AVOID.

The lack of hardened box ways kind of irked me too.

Get voltage conditioners if power is the least bit shady.

If you buy a used machine, have it independently inspected/serviced/calibrated. Used machine dealers are just like used car lots.

"it spent its whole life in a medical shop making plastic knee caps. . ." (how come there's D2 chips stuck under the way covers then?????)

Last,

make sure you have a well prepared surface for the machine to sit on. A 8000lb machining center should not sit on a 3" thick garage floor. MASS is everything. It'll be immediately evident in surface finishes, repeatability, and overall service life.

Cry once and buy the time/experience of some good concrete folk!

If dollars are no object, have a machine purpose built. Put dual chucks on it and dual carriages so that you can work both ends in one setup. Imagine being able to fit a tennon, walk to the opposite side of the machine and have the muzzle sticking out ready to be parted off and threaded/crowned, whatever.

Someday. . .

All the best


Chad Dixon
LongRifles, Inc.

Brothers in the machine tool business? Boy that's a new one on me! When I first read your comment about a machine from Brothers, I immediately thought of those small Swiss Turn machines, But who knows what they are like. <g>

* Okumas are as common as Mustang automobiles, and they come in all kinds of sizes and shapes. They do have a pretty good frame design that is fairly rigid. They are built well enough that you can hard turn with them if you are ontop of your game. But also not for the amature to start with. Their turrets are prone to move on you under hard pressure, and if you leave the steel alignment dowl pins in the slide you will ruin any chance of coming back to the starting point. (always pull them on every machine!) The turrets are also prone to high pressure coolant leaks under the turret, and a pain in the but to do anykind of a quick fix. But at least they are hard piped, and if you use your head and not bend the piping you can seal them up fairly good. If you use your machine over 12 hours a day, plan on a turret rebuilt every 30 months max. Usually closer to 18 months. Head stock alignment is the second worst I've ever encountered to get back to square one! A Monarch TC-1 is the very worst! (mainly because of all the sheet metal you have to remove) There are some serious electronic under the turret on the Okuma, and expect problems with high pressure coolant leaks. But the design itself if firm. The one major issue with the Okuma lathe is the way they setup their over travel and grid switches. This needs a complete redesign, and I'm not sure how you'd go about it. They use a common cable with everything going thru it, and if the cable fails expect some serious hair pulling. They are also prone to tampering with the machine perimeters setup in the control. If left alone, they'll never show their ugly face. Okuma uses two different controls, and have no serious issues with either one, even though I hate Fanuc controls. I would get the Okuma control as it has some really nice features

* Mazaks run well, but a not over built in any critical area. Have a hard wreck (you will someday), and you maybe faced with a major repair at the least. Or even a complete rebuild. They don't rebuild well.

* the best frame design ever made was the old J&L CNC lathe. They hold up well under a high speed wreck that will send most others to the junk pile. Sheet metal on them is a PIA on a good day! I've never been around one that had live tooling other than at the factory. I like their concept better than the others, but also maybe a nightmare down the road. These machines come back from a major crash very well and also very quickly once you learn the art of removing and replacing all that tin! These machine rebuild well and are fairly simply to work on. Good tail stock design. The turret switches are blind, but not all that bad to work on. You will have to remove the turret (s) to replace them (everybody's fail sooner or later). The ten or twelve sided upper turret is much easier to work on when removed in one piece, and goes into alignment with the dowl pins (pull them before running the machine). Ball screws are easy to change, but be sure to leave enough room to get the Z axis out! Many folks forget this issue, and have to cut a hole in the wall. Ball screws can be purchased at Lead Screw International in Michigan (they also did a lot of the OEM screws). Looking for a good used machine, this is where to start!

* I don't think I've ever been around a Monarch CNC lathe that had a tail stock. They are pretty good machine, but also have the same issues with the turret index as all the others do. The are not a true slant bed design, but a true vertical bed design. Not as good as a slant bed, but much easier access to the tooling and chuck. Of them, I like the TC-2 better as it's built much heavier.

*Warner Swasey's! Oh My, and I still hate them. I've been around about every size and shape you can think of, and they are still a PIA on a good day. Looking for a good used one? Look for one that has the two speed transmission in the head stock. Otherwise your stuck with making lots and lots of light cuts to get the job done. Frame is OK, but not nearly as good as a J&L. Spindle bearings can be a serious issue with them, and this is not for the shade tree mechanic to tackle (an Okuma can be a bear as well). But when they run, they run very well.

* G&L made a series of slant bed lathes that were similar in design to the American Panther and Hustler series with a much shallower bed angle. Probably better quality than the American. But the American is the only lathe I've seen with a differential resolver as well as the normal one. This is fantastic when doing touch off points to start a full bore program in a part. Head stock is probably one of the hardest I've ever rebuilt. Comes apart in about eight hours, and goes back in 20 hours if your lucky! Clutches can be an issue here.

* the slant bed Hardingh is the Cadillac of CNC lathes! Best live tooling I've ever seen. The frame on the smaller ones is made of plastic!!! I was very suspect of this concept, but it doesn't change over time like the others will. They fill the headstock with grout, and also a lot of the base. The machine is very rigid, and actually will change less than a J&L of similar size. This is an honest .0005" or less machine. Hard turns very well, and holds up well cutting the hardened rods. Threads so well that you'd think the threads were ground. Plus they are cheaper than a similar Okuma.

Mills!

For a machine to do work like you'd do on a typical Bridgeport, I like the Fidal out of California. They come with converstional controls that use touch off points. Seem to hold up very well. I like their table design over most of the others. It's a large rectangle shape that allows you to have several fixtures placed on it to work off of. Some folks have a B axis and a couple angle plates on them at the sametime. Even a rotary tail stock setup. They are not expensive either. These machine will flat smoke a Bridgeport with the Prototrac unit on them, or the Southwest Trac as well.

Of the Asian designs I like the Okuma Howa (not the lathe folks), and the Makino best. Won't run with a G&L in any way shape or form. But are nice machines. The Okuma lathe folks also have their own line of machine centers, and they are not bad, but once again won't run with the big dogs

Accuracey wise, the old Devlieg is the top of the ladder. I've been around the SIP of similar design that was so raved about. It's a piece of junk! And they are way over priced for their engineering and design. Folks that own Devliegs tend to rebuild them, rather than replace them. The old K&T (and now G&L) MM series are great machines than can be picked up for a song! Honest .0005" machines or less. Easy to rebuild as well. For gun parts an MM600 would be fantastic, and you can completely rebuild one in about six weeks or less. Fantastic control as well (this is the one Fanuc and GE stole). But they did a few with Allen Bradleys, and there's nothing wrong with them as well. Get the Gemini control as it's that much better. I think all they make now are MM2300's, and these machine are way over the top. But extremely accurate and extremely bullet proof. Spindle bearing pack will seriously hurt your checking account, and you can't replace them. You have to send the cartridge back. They are ceramic and very expensive (about $10K). The average end user should get five to six years out of them. We got two years max. The older MM series used conventional angular contact ball bearings, and you could buy a set of Bardens for about five or six hundred dollars (best ball bearings made). Hydra-Ribs are another beast that are also not easy. Tricky to setup, and also don't come cheap. But very accurate.

I've rebuilt a lot of machines in my lifetime, and repaired a lot of wrecks as well.
gary

 

[shortgrass]

How many rifles/barreled actions you planning on puttin' out in a week/month/year, lazylabs?

 

[lazylabs]

So few that CNC doesn't make sense. Having a leblond and bridgeport and $1000's in tooling doesn't make sense either..... I know that I could just spend all this money on someone else building me guns and be MUCH further ahead. I have been working on one for myself for about 3 years and it's still not done....LOL I have built about 15 for friends during that time and never finish mine! I am doing it for fun not economy. I honestly get as much satisfaction out of a super smooth chamber finish that closes tight on the go gague(first try)as I do shooting a personal record group.

I am not trying to be a smart ***..... it's hard for even my to wrap my head around spending all this time/money for what is a hobby at this point.