Couple questions on bullet weld

[jimbires]

Crazy. How about factory ammo? Ever heard it happening with factory ammo?

I've never heard of it on factory ammo .

 

[Bigeclipse]

Nope, factory ammo is immune. This only happens with reloads, but not all reloads. Only reloads that need to be pulled. More specifically where the brass is wet tumbled for more than 37.3 minutes and then stored for more than 647 days, 3 hrs, and 19 seconds at greater than 82.34 degF.

Also only with brass cases and copper coated bullets. Exposed lead bullets are except. Same with nickel plated brass.

I'm pretty happy it doesn't occur with factory ammo, otherwise we'd all be maimed by all the welded bullets blowing up our guns with the excess pressure created.

I'm taking this post as sarcasm. What I meant is do factories use some sort of coating to help prevent this or should we also be shooting our factory ammo and not let it sit for years.

 

[BoomFlop]

It happens with factory I'm sure, however, how many people that shoot factory ammo have the ability to even check? Also, so many variables. Brass type, bullet type and storage conditions just to name a few potential effects.

Also, it is most likely to affect the "long" range shooter and most (at least myself) don't load up more than I am going to shoot in a reasonable amount of time. I want the ability to tweak my load if needed.

Steve

 

[BillLarson]

Interesting subject..... must be something like electrolysis going on.....I know it,s a fact but consider these cases.....
I,ve shot surplus military ammo loaded in the 1940,s......
WW11 was fought with alot of 30-06 ammo loaded up in WW1..... Korea was fought with ammo from WW11....
Wat does Lake City know we dont...???

 

[Hugnot]

Cold weld - it happens with reloads having powder residue inside necks. I have never experienced cold weld using new brass. My solution is to chuck the right size nylon bore brush in my cordless & give the insides about 30 seconds each. Do this as a first step. When sizing using an expander plug, lube the insides of the necks with small amount of graphite lock lube on a Q tip. The cold weld usually takes about 1 month to occur and not all rounds in a lot will have it. When pulling bullets from old reloads it's best to give each round a small push down with a seat die - hear them go POP. Never had cold weld using factory ammo that has been loaded with new brass.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Many moons ago I bought a NECO CONCENTRICITY GAUGE to test inspect brass, bullets, loaded ammo. The owner sent me a NECO Neck Lubrication Kit as a gift. I never did use it but it notes that besides lube the neck it helps against "Cold Welding" of the bullet to the case. I didn't want to put another part into my reloading process at the time. The kit uses small stainless Ball bearings coated in Molybdenum Disulfide (moly, MoS2). You dip the neck of the case into the ball bearings and it coats the inside and outside of the neck.
I may just try it to see what effect it has.

 

[spladi]

From what I have read, bullet weld can happen to ammo which sits for a long time. I'm not new to reloading or shooting but when it comes to bullet weld I have read a lot of conflicting info so I have a few questions as follows:

1. Does it only cause inconsistencies or can it actually be dangerous?
2. I have read neck lubing can help prevent this (graphite as an example). Does it PREVENT it completely or can it still occur?
3. How many rounds and for how long do you keep loaded for your hunting rigs? Reason I ask is I like to have a minimum of 20 rounds going into a hunting season. This gives me some sighters to make sure my rifle is on and then 10 or more for actually hunting. I typically do not have reloads sitting around longer than 6 months and most often only a couple months but I do have some backup rifles for hunting which may not get shot for years. I like to keep rounds loaded but not if bullet weld is possible.

I have seen some guys do final seating on the range just before they shoot their match

 

[justinp61]

I wonder if the oils (sweat) that are on our fingers transfer to the bullets while handling them contributes to cold welding?

 

[Teri Anne]

From what I have read, bullet weld can happen to ammo which sits for a long time. I'm not new to reloading or shooting but when it comes to bullet weld I have read a lot of conflicting info so I have a few questions as follows:

1. Does it only cause inconsistencies or can it actually be dangerous?
2. I have read neck lubing can help prevent this (graphite as an example). Does it PREVENT it completely or can it still occur?
3. How many rounds and for how long do you keep loaded for your hunting rigs? Reason I ask is I like to have a minimum of 20 rounds going into a hunting season. This gives me some sighters to make sure my rifle is on and then 10 or more for actually hunting. I typically do not have reloads sitting around longer than 6 months and most often only a couple months but I do have some backup rifles for hunting which may not get shot for years. I like to keep rounds loaded but not if bullet weld is possible.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this subject. Bullets do not become welded to the cases. Welding is a heat process and unless you physically weld the bullet to the case it's impossible to happen. It is however possible to have corrosion form between the bullet and case, but I have never seen any issues with the round firing, but fouling a barrel, yes they will. I had, and still have some old military ammo dating back to late WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. If kept cool and dry they function like the day they were new. Now to answer your quetions.
1 - Since it does not really happen in real life, no to the inconsistencies and of no real danger if like anything else fired from a firearm in good condition.
2. - Depending on what you lube the necks with can cause corrosion. Remember we are dealing with dissimilar metals here, brass and copper.
3 - Bullet weld only exists in the minds of some. As mentioned earlier, I have shot ammo that is over 78 years old without any problems. Ammo only a few months or even years will never be an issue.

Yes, I do know that there are many out there that will argue this point, To each their own and believe whatever you want. Bullets do not weld themselves to cases.

 

[spladi]

Many moons ago I bought a NECO CONCENTRICITY GAUGE to test inspect brass, bullets, loaded ammo. The owner sent me a NECO Neck Lubrication Kit as a gift. I never did use it but it notes that besides lube the neck it helps against "Cold Welding" of the bullet to the case. I didn't want to put another part into my reloading process at the time. The kit uses small stainless Ball bearings coated in Molybdenum Disulfide (moly, MoS2). You dip the neck of the case into the ball bearings and it coats the inside and outside of the neck.
I may just try it to see what effect it has.

Moly does work and so does " Dupont Dry Film Teflon Lubricant " which I found on Amazon........specifically for a lubricant, not sure about it being an anti-weld preventative

 

[baldhunter]

Years ago when I was taught how to reload,I was taught to lube the inside of the case neck with a light coat of RCBS case lube on a plastic bristle bore brush.I found out later,this is a bad practice.I pulled some bullets on some ammo that had been stored for awhile and there was green corrosion developing around the bullet and the case neck.I since then have switched to graphite powder and have had zero issues since.

 

[KSAv8r]

Dissimilar metal corrosion is real. I would suggest why some people experiences it and some don't has to do primarily with the manufacturing process. Different vendors use different formulas for their brass. Bullet vendors vary the formula for the copper alloy to get the hardness and expansion they want. There are acceptable manufacturing tolerances from lot to lot. Given all these variables is why we see corrosion more prevalent with certain combinations of brass and bullets. After a round has been fired, there is a small change to the chemical composition of the brass in a very thin layer, especially around the neck due to heat, pressure and chemicals in the powder. This change is more prevalent in with certain powders since their chemical composition is slightly different.

The best way I have found to minimize this type of corrosion is to use a fine graphite power or some of the newer liquid formulas to coat the neck before bullet insertion. Lee Precision has a good product that can be used wet or dry.

Lastly, a best practice which someone mentioned previously, is to seat the bullet long before storage and then seat to their final COAL or base to ogive reading a day or so before a hunting trip.

 

[rm76]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this subject. Bullets do not become welded to the cases. Welding is a heat process and unless you physically weld the bullet to the case it's impossible to happen. It is however possible to have corrosion form between the bullet and case, but I have never seen any issues with the round firing, but fouling a barrel, yes they will. I had, and still have some old military ammo dating back to late WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. If kept cool and dry they function like the day they were new. Now to answer your quetions.
1 - Since it does not really happen in real life, no to the inconsistencies and of no real danger if like anything else fired from a firearm in good condition.
2. - Depending on what you lube the necks with can cause corrosion. Remember we are dealing with dissimilar metals here, brass and copper.
3 - Bullet weld only exists in the minds of some. As mentioned earlier, I have shot ammo that is over 78 years old without any problems. Ammo only a few months or even years will never be an issue.

Yes, I do know that there are many out there that will argue this point, To each their own and believe whatever you want. Bullets do not weld themselves to cases.

You stated your opinion here, but you do not give any context to what you mean by saying "I have never seen any issues with the round firing". I think most of us will agree that long term stored rounds will fire, but what happens to consistency, SD, ES, pressure, precision? What are the subtle effects that affect accuracy, especially at long distances?

 

[pointy sticks]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this subject. Bullets do not become welded to the cases. Welding is a heat process and unless you physically weld the bullet to the case it's impossible to happen. It is however possible to have corrosion form between the bullet and case, but I have never seen any issues with the round firing, but fouling a barrel, yes they will. I had, and still have some old military ammo dating back to late WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. If kept cool and dry they function like the day they were new. Now to answer your quetions.
1 - Since it does not really happen in real life, no to the inconsistencies and of no real danger if like anything else fired from a firearm in good condition.
2. - Depending on what you lube the necks with can cause corrosion. Remember we are dealing with dissimilar metals here, brass and copper.
3 - Bullet weld only exists in the minds of some. As mentioned earlier, I have shot ammo that is over 78 years old without any problems. Ammo only a few months or even years will never be an issue.

Yes, I do know that there are many out there that will argue this point, To each their own and believe whatever you want. Bullets do not weld themselves to cases.

Then could you please explain the pic in post #10. I believe that is what the op was asking about.
Thanks