comfisherman
Well-Known Member
I would question the need for an aluminum bedding block in a well-designed stock....
Carbon Fiber vs. Fiberglass?
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I would question the need for an aluminum bedding block in a well-designed stock....
wilehunting
Well-Known Member
I can certainly agree with Old Rooster, the older I get the less I like recoil.
Since fiberglass is typically heavier than carbon fiber it would have less recoil just from the weight difference. If both the fiberglass and carbon fiber weighed the same, recoil should be the same but most fiberglass stocks are foam filled so maybe not.
If I was Jack O'Connor I'd be using my wood stocked model 70 in 270 Win. but I'm not. I hopped on this thread for fun but give me a good reason to swap out my factory stocked guaranteed 1 moa, Tikka, Browning, or ? to a new carbon fiber stock or McMillan, B&C, etc.
Since fiberglass is typically heavier than carbon fiber it would have less recoil just from the weight difference. If both the fiberglass and carbon fiber weighed the same, recoil should be the same but most fiberglass stocks are foam filled so maybe not.
If I was Jack O'Connor I'd be using my wood stocked model 70 in 270 Win. but I'm not. I hopped on this thread for fun but give me a good reason to swap out my factory stocked guaranteed 1 moa, Tikka, Browning, or ? to a new carbon fiber stock or McMillan, B&C, etc.
May not be needed, but pretty common in these stocks. https://www.agcomposites.com/carbon-fiber-stocks/1/ag-alpine-hunter#section2
Aluminum block and pillars.
Having been a close friend and customer of Mark Brown, of Brown Precision, for over 30 Years, I can tell you conclusively that Carbon and Kevlar stocks recoil exhibit felt recoil more sharply than fiberglass. There is less compression resistance in glass, and this affects the felt recoil impulse of the newer materials. The reason these newer materials are used is for specifically that reason - lighter, stiffer and therefore more rigid, These traits make for a more felt recoil.
In case you didn't know, Mark's Dad, Chet - a multi-time National Champion BR shooter - invented the fiberglass stock - and then founded 'Brown Precision Rifles' to manufacture them.
In case you didn't know, Mark's Dad, Chet - a multi-time National Champion BR shooter - invented the fiberglass stock - and then founded 'Brown Precision Rifles' to manufacture them.
comfisherman
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I was thinking bell ans carlson style block that's essentially an aluminum inlet with high density frp foam around it. Guessing by the weights on the ag it's not that big a block. Only have one ag (impresses with it, I'm just a Shrek looking human so svelte trim stocks don't fit me. Ag rightly designs stocks for normal humans) see how big the bedding block is. Full length block or overgrown pillar style block...
The primary reason we have the aluminum pillars is we use the pillars to "bolt the stocks down" to a fixture during the inletting operation. After the inletting the pillars are just a pass through for your action screws. The aluminum inside the forend is to allow the user to drill and tap the bottom side of the forend for swivel studs and or rails. It's not there for structural reasons.
Thanks for the info!
nksmfamjp
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Why? Compression forces over a narrow area…..bolting points….really need a stiffer material in compression than the fiberglass or carbon fiber can be. I co thing a carbon fiber pillar could be made, but it has not been made. Basically you would need vertical fibers. Even then, I wonder if the fibers can be loaded or if you just get a weird failure.
I don't know but about 10 years ago I bought a Bell & Carlson composite stock for a Vanguard/Howa 300 weatherby mag to replace the Choat stock that came with the rifle.The Bell & Carlson stock looks great but with the aluminum bedding block it transmits so much recoil most cannot shoot it.
I took a box of factory ammo with 180 gr Federal bullets and the recoil was way too sharp.I contacted Bell & Carlson and they said to get a smaller rifle.I't transmitted the shock to the shooter so badly that a young man who asked if he could shoot it had his shooting glasses fly off his head about 5 feet behind him.I put the old stock back on and I could shoot the rest of the box.I tried to put another action in it but have not finished.
I HATE the aluminum bedding block idea.A regular well made stock can mitigate recoil just fine.
I think I will re-barrell the 300 weatherby as the barrel is worn badly,not to 300 weatherby mag but something else and get an A G Composite stock without an aluminum bedding block
I took a box of factory ammo with 180 gr Federal bullets and the recoil was way too sharp.I contacted Bell & Carlson and they said to get a smaller rifle.I't transmitted the shock to the shooter so badly that a young man who asked if he could shoot it had his shooting glasses fly off his head about 5 feet behind him.I put the old stock back on and I could shoot the rest of the box.I tried to put another action in it but have not finished.
I HATE the aluminum bedding block idea.A regular well made stock can mitigate recoil just fine.
I think I will re-barrell the 300 weatherby as the barrel is worn badly,not to 300 weatherby mag but something else and get an A G Composite stock without an aluminum bedding block
cohunt
Well-Known Member
And yet it's commonly used in race car helmets --- maybe different properties are needed
comfisherman
Well-Known Member
Pillars make sense, especially with the low density cores in the modern light weight stocks. Go back a few years to say a mcmillan mag fill stock and the core is strong enough to take threads.
Beauty of composites is making a layup that has rigidity and strength exactly where it's needed. From a manufacturing standpoint point I totally get pillars, but some are going to full aluminum internal chasis. Pillars and a block for sling studs makes sense, I just like to see composites do composite things.
Think ag does a good job balancing mfg cost and features, better in some regards to its competitors.
My shop is the place all my friends bed their stocks, so while I've only one ag half dozen have gone through my shop this last year.
Also used in bullet proof protection.I expect it's very expensive and hard to work with
Wow,so a lot more engineering than meets the eye!
I wish I knew more about it but too old now!
comfisherman
Well-Known Member
Admittedly don't know a ton, picked a few things working with some composites engineers on big boat projects. I'm certain on a site this big there is at least a few guys with an in depth knowledge of composites. Doing my first big carbon project this spring, sure is a neat material when done well.
