Cannot get barrel clean!!!

[Dhammer]

Only took me 3 days to get my two .06''s clean. Wondered why my groups went to hell from start of my last shooting session. ;( Of course I couldn't find my nylon bushes either and no one sells em here locally.

I forgot how much I hated the smell of the Barnes Copper Solvent. Think I have needed it twice in all the years I had it. A nylon brush would have been a nice addition with the Barnes. Oh well. No scrubbing action. Barns Patching, clean out, regular solvent and brass brush.(short version). Def wasn't a fast route. It wasn't comming out without a fight. Usally my barrels clean easily too. That will be a mystery I will never solve. I wonder if gunsmith took em out shooting on me as long as he had em for simple grind to fit butpadds. hahaha

I'm interested to see how these mentioned non ammnioa copper solvent works. I used to try just about anything that came out. Oil and solvent wise. But, a long tried and true method has always one out. With only one modification.

A few years ago I was on gimp duty cleaning all the dept AR's and training AR's with 22 conversions. They'd fire those until they stopped working all together. So I got a neat idea to try what I use and what I had left over from other testing or had acquired from buddies giving me their shot show cleaning goodies. They knew I was into that stuff. We didnt have much dept supplied wise and what we did was garbage. I didnt mind using my stuff either. I always felt that since I was cleaning them. I had a responsibility to each officer that checked one out. I was going to use the best and what I knew that worked along with best lubes(that also made it easier to clean too).

But the 22's were my test babies. My proven methods beat the rest out. Since they called me when they started to malfunction during quals on our shift, to give a quick scrub down and get em back up to finish the quals. I was also able to see which ones failed first. Again no surprises in that regards either.

Next time I have to clean my rifles, aka next week since I am working up my hunting loads for this year. My BDL hates being dirty, My Bar plays nicer. I will have to see what one of the new favorites is most affordable.

The disability retirmemet has taken away the funds to splurge on testing new things out. I cannot justify the well I had to buy x,y, and z to find out z was best or that I wasted my cash on all three. Man, I used to do that a lot when I was a younger, but enjoyed testing out things too.

Great post as I ran into similar issues and not the norm. So I enjoyed reading it.

 

[KYpatriot]

wow you really dont want to see any copper. I recommend that you just shoot it, make sure the bore is clean with maybe a slight bit of oil and shoot it. all of this incredibly aggressive cleaning is doing your bore more harm than good. If you start to see copper coming out of your barrel while shooting yes you should clean the copper, but other than that just leave the copper in it.

This.

If the patches are relatively clean, you are done. In some factory rifles it can actually be detrimental to accuracy if they are squeaky clean, i have a 308 that is a .6moa rifle but needs 20 rounds to get settled down after cleaning, so now it gets cleaned after 400 rounds or so, and shoots lights out even then. My theory is that the copper is filling in "rougher" spots in the bore and it actually smooths everything out.

If your rifle is shooting, dont worry about it.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

Edd, no it will not. It is completely safe on all types of steel and will not react with any alloy that contains steel. On wood, M98 leaves stains similar to water if not wiped immediately.

 

[GBA1776]

This.

If the patches are relatively clean, you are done. In some factory rifles it can actually be detrimental to accuracy if they are squeaky clean, i have a 308 that is a .6moa rifle but needs 20 rounds to get settled down after cleaning, so now it gets cleaned after 400 rounds or so, and shoots lights out even then. My theory is that the copper is filling in "rougher" spots in the bore and it actually smooths everything out.

If your rifle is shooting, dont worry about it.

I completely agree, copper is your friend, carbon is the problem. Ive got a Savage 93 22wmr with 4,120 rounds through it and i have never cleaned the copper out. I did the standard break in, 1 shot clean 5times , 5 shots clean, 5 shots clean, 5 shots clean, and since then I have only been using Oil, I will lube a nylon brush with a moly/teflon oil and run it through a few times then just use oiled patches, after about 5 dirty they get cleaner and cleaner and when they come out clean I stop, run a dry patch through and call it good, Im doing the same thing on my 18" AR that I use for long range. although my AR has far fewer rounds shot through it.
Even after 4,000+ rounds Im not seeing copper coming out of the muzzle after shooting, I had expected it to reach a point of degrading the accuracy, or just cake up so much that I would see it at the muzzle, but it hasnt. Each round fired strips a little off and lays a little down. I know If I were to strip all the copper out and try to group the accuracy would be horrible until I could build up that copper again.

I have almost no cold bore POI shift on the AR, for the 22wmr is shoots about 1.25" high first shot cold @100yds, then .6" high second then its spot on the third shot.

When I look down my bore there is a good amount of copper on the lands and grooves in my 22wmr barrel, but even though I have never stripped copper It shoots well below .5" at 50yds the best groups I get at 100 with that gun are 1.25" but its a 22wmr and its all horizontal from slight wind. Vertical grouping is incredibly tight.

I am a firm believer in leaving copper in your barrel, yes you cant get all the carbon out without removing the copper, but carbon trapped under copper wont oxidize steel, and when I put my guns away even for a week I put sopping wet patches down the barrel and I just run a dry patch through it before I shoot.

I have guns for home defense and I dont clean the copper out of those either, I just clean them the same way and lightly oil the bore, and once every two weeks or so I will run a dry patch through them and then a another with light oil just to make sure they are good.

If you are sitting there scrubbing the hell out of your bore the chances of dinging the crown are very high, not to mention that with all of the erosive forces already being applied to a barrel stripping down the copper with aggressive brushing will also remove the chemically affected, and heat affected zones of your barrel, and they actually are insulating the steel of your barrel, So aggressive stripping of copper is actually reducing your barrel life considerably.

Now if you are seeing massive amounts of copper at the muzzle or you reach a point where your accuracy is wild because of copper, cleaning it out well help obviously but there is something wrong inside your bore that is causing the copper fouling to build up so badly. And you should just re barrel the rifle.

 

[RemingtonMagnum]

Thank you everyone for the help and input! Decided to try wipe out. However now Im a little worried that I coulda messed up the barrel by all my excessive brushing ha that would be spendy mistake! And also wondering how Im gonna work up a good load for it cause I don't know at what point my gun will shoot best. All the factory rifles Ive loaded for always shot best after cleaned and shot twice. Looks like I have lots of shooting ahead of me!

 

[RemingtonMagnum]

Ok Im having the worst luck with this gun! Let wipe out soak overnight. Woke up and filled barrel again then 1 hour later ran patches thru it. Well on the third patch it got stuck right after the lands. Wouldn't budge. Had wife hold gun on floor while I yanked it out. Same patches I've been using it wasn't a bigger one. Tried one more just to see if something was funky with that last patch. Same thing happened again. Anyone know why Im having this problem all of the sudden??

 

[tim_w]

When it did fit was it a tight fit where it took some effort to get it started? If it was and now its thoroughly degreased maybe it will not go thru.

Did a dry patch make it thru before or were they wet ones?

Assume you are using the same jag or loop and putting the patch on the same angle?

Possibly getting a couple patches stuck together?

Make sure the cleaning rod is spinning freely on the handle.

 

[RemingtonMagnum]

Ya 2 dry ones made it thru before they started getting stuck. Everything has been the same. Im thinkin it must just be the bore is so dry now they aren't sliding thru. Or the patches I'm using, which are pro shot round patches, maybe some bigger ones were in the package from the factory. Been busy lately and havent been able to mess with it but will post the outcome when I figure it out.

 

[RemingtonMagnum]

I guess they were just getting stuck from there being nothing in the barrel just dry. Seems weird I could run tons of dry patches thru after using hoppes copper bore cleaner, but not more than 2 dry patches after the wipe out.

 

[cynicrit]

I've read that residual copper deposits can actually fill in the microscopic irregularities in a barrel and "smooth" it out. Could it be that once you get a barrel truly clean then whatever rough spots are there would show up? Even those too tiny for the naked eye? Just a thought.

 

[tim_w]

My guess is the first copper remover has some lubricants in it and wipeout doesn't.

 

[jlreff]

like the guys here said, get a nylon brush. try also mountana 50bmg copper killer solvent. wet patch the bore, then plug the muzzle with a wet patch, and soak for 30 minutes. that should take care of it.

 

[ATH]

If a treating of Wipe Out, and plugging the muzzle with a patched jag then filling the bore with copper solved for half an hour, doesn't solve the issue, then the copper is not the issue.

I have a Remington factory Sendero barrel which is very accurate, as long as I treat it like this every 25 rounds or so.

 

[Pa Grizz]

Re:

On barrels I am having a hard time with I use 7.62. Do not let it sit more than 15 minutes and make sure you use something like rem-oil after .I do not use it every cleaning .Just when nothing else seems to be working. I have used a lot of other solvent and then 7.62 and the patch come out blue