can i shoot berger out of my WSM?

[Wheatgerm]

There are three 300 WSM's in the group I hunt with and all have gone with the 190 Berger. Last years biggest bull was double tapped at 90 yards, one behind and one through the shoulders and both bullets did awesome with the one that cleaned out both shoulders ending under the hide, poured the internals out. Same rifle was used for a cow right at 800 yards no problemo! I've seriously tried to blow up Berger bullets and I never have, I've never seen evidence of one opening prior to entering the chest cavity, so far the Berger is the only one I've not seen fail on and elk shoulder but I've shot a lot more elk with Barnes but I got over that We seat them way deep and in my 300 WBY they are seated in as far as you can before the ogive starts into the neck and they shoot outstanding.

That's great news and exactly what I was wanting to gear thanks! Seems ill want to be in the bigger bullet rage for sure tho. Do you happen to know the loads or speeds they are getting out of the wsm with the 190's?
Im thinking for starters on seating depth ill go to where they just fit in the magazine and work it in or out from there depending on how the bullet acts?

 

[COBrad]

I'm using Berger VLD's out of two rifles this year. One is a 270 WSM shooting the 140 VLD's. My rifle is built on a Stiller Predator action, so I believe I have a longer magazine box than factory actions I have used, but the rifle has a standard throat length so the bullets are seated to where they should fit in a standard action, but they still touch the lands in my gun. This is the seating depth that gives best accuracy in this particular rifle.
I have long been an Accubond or Barnes fan, but I really like the accuracy I get from Berger, and have spoken with enough guys who have used the Bergers for big game that I am going to give them a go on elk this year.
My rifle is an 8 lb. scoped, sporter. It is shooting 1/2 MOA first shot cold barrel accuracy out to 600 yards for me with this bullet. I've shot a nice pile of marmots at ranges between 5 and 600 yards with this rifle this year.

 

[kz3]

Just to give you a reference. Out of my 300WSM I'm getting 2877 out of a 26" Brux 1/12 twist 190 VLD H4350 61grns. I'm seating .01 off lands for best accuracy. I could bump up the speed a little but I'm happy with the results.

 

[Wheatgerm]

Thanks for the info.

Berger emailed me back just last night after about 2 days. They said to start as far out as possible where it would still fit in my magazineand try a few groups. With different load of powder. Then take the most accurate load of powder and if im still not happy with the group to start seating the bullet deeper until I find the second sweet spot on the "jump" they seemed to be pretty confident if I play with it enough I will get a very accurate load.
They even sent me some load data. Looks like at max load I can hope to be in the mid 2900's .

If anyone else out there is shooting bergers out of a 300 wsm or a wsm in general and wants to share their experience and loads that would be great

I found some 185vld's in my local classified so I will hopefully be sharing my own experience in a week or so

 

[Wheatgerm]

k guys let me know where you think i should go from here. the load was berger 185 vld's seated as far out as my magazine will allow, rl-17 powder.
i started at 58 gr of powder and ended at 61 (max load) there was no signs of pressure on the primers. the bolt was nice and smooth after every shot..

the square in the target is 1in. at 60gr it put 2 bullets right next to eachother then the 3rd shot was about 1.5 lower than the other 2.
ill be the the first to admit im not the most consistent on the bipod so i really feel someone else could have probably tightened up the group.

ive been shooting my whole life but this is the first time ive actually shot on paper and really watched my groups. so let me know what you guys with more exp get out of this thanks!

 

[Wheatgerm]

also dont know how much this matters but these shots were all with virgin brass

 

[SBruce]

Howdy Wheatgerm,

Sorry, I am a little late for the party. I've shots reams and reams of paper over the years, so here goes.

How did the Hornadys' shoot for group size as compared to the Berger load pics you just posted?

I am assuming the targets you're showing were shot at 100, maybe 200 yds??

I am fixing to try the 175 Berger, previously tried the 165-180 Ballistic Tips and 165-180 Accubonds, also tried the 178 A-Max............My gun is shooting the same way yours appears to be (3/4 moa to 2 moa depending on the load). It is also a short action 300 WSM.

Don't mean to nor attempting to ridicule here, so please dont take it that way. But, those groups are not what I personally consider to be "long range capable"...........in fact, mine may be getting another barrel real soon if changing primers and trying another combination or two doesn't work.

Back to the question: I guess, if it were me testing the 185; I'd try 59.5, 60, and 60.5 at a longer distance. Or maybe even keep going until you see some pressure (might find a node up higher in powder charge). Then pick the best of those charges and try different seating depths. Use Bergers' recommended technique for finding the best seating depth.

IMO, If a rifle/load wont put 3 shots cold barrel inside a 1.5" - 2" circle at 300 yds under great conditions (calm day, good light, low mirage, steady rest, ect.) Then it definately won't put them within a couple inches of POA at 600 yds under hunting conditions. My personal goal for LR varmint rifles is 1" at 300yds under good conditions, and when everything is just right, 1" at 400 yds is even possible with some guns...........Just sayin, I wouldn't be happy with 1.5"-2" groups at 200 yds or less.

Best of Luck, feel free to PM me anytime.

 

[Wheatgerm]

Those groups are at 150. And no im not happy with the groups at all. That's why im looking for some help seeing what else to do.. the hornady shot 3/4 in group a while ago when I was shooting them.
But here's the thing (I hate to admit this) but I shot my hornady's last night and got about the same results as the bergers. I punched 2 right next to eachother and the 3rd was just about an inch off.
I guess im wondering if you guys think its worth going and trying the 60gr load that put 2 bulletsin in the same hole on a led sled or maybe playing with the seating depth with that powder range?
Maybe yesterday just wasn't my day for shooting idk.
Thanks for your input

 

[dragman]

Got 2 WSM's for bench shooting.
one shoots a berger 190 and has a best group of 2.85" @ 1055 yards
other shoots a 210 VLD's as it's throated with .188 freebore and has shot a few sub 4" 1000 yard groups.​

 

[Wheatgerm]

Got 2 WSM's for bench shooting.
one shoots a berger 190 and has a best group of 2.85" @ 1055 yards
other shoots a 210 VLD's as it's throated with .188 freebore and has shot a few sub 4" 1000 yard groups.​

Ok, any input on how your getting these things to fly? Because im not even having half the luck it sound like you have with them

 

[dakor]

I am shooting the 190 out of my 300wsm Tikka T3 Lite along with reloading the same bullet for my two cousins with 300 WSM Tikka T3 lite's. I seated them 190 Bergers to fit in the clip and I am using R-19 with win brass and a CCI mag primer. All rifles are jumping around .200 or more and all shoot half MOA. I have also shot the 200 Accubond and 200 SMK jumping them as well and they shoot very well. You will not know until you try it. We have taken 3 cow elk and several deer with those 190 Berger VLD''s and they seem to work well.

 

[Wheatgerm]

I am shooting the 190 out of my 300wsm Tikka T3 Lite along with reloading the same bullet for my two cousins with 300 WSM Tikka T3 lite's. I seated them 190 Bergers to fit in the clip and I am using R-19 with win brass and a CCI mag primer. All rifles are jumping around .200 or more and all shoot half MOA. I have also shot the 200 Accubond and 200 SMK jumping them as well and they shoot very well. You will not know until you try it. We have taken 3 cow elk and several deer with those 190 Berger VLD''s and they seem to work well.

Thanks for the info. It sounds like your setup almost the same as me but im using r-17 instead of 19. Im going to load the 60, 60.5, and 61 again with fire formed brass this time using a led sled and see how they group. I feel alot of these poor groups were from me on the bipod. I was shooting uphill and couldn't get feeling very comfortable in the position I was in

 

[dragman]

Ok, any input on how your getting these things to fly? Because im not even having half the luck it sound like you have with them

the 190's are just touching the lands and have 3-4 thousands bullet grip
the 210's are JAMed 10 thou. and have only 1 thousands grip.

 

[liltank]

I've shot the WSM with 210's and 208's w/RL17. So this is what I would do first. The two groups that have 2 touching with a flier, change your primer. That seemed to tighten it up for me. The 59 and 59.5 you'll want to change the seating depth. That should help tighten that up. I would say seat them about .010"-.015" deeper than where you are at. With the 59 and 59.5 you should also try a set seated .075" and .100" deep.

Tank