can i shoot berger out of my WSM?

[4bycamper]

Try Barnes CR-10

I've been using it on all of my mag rifles

and it takes about 3 wet patches to push out the heavy copper.

These first patches come out dark blue.

The rest come out light green.

Hope this helps.

 

[4xforfun]

God yes...clean it better. I am TOTALY anal about my cleaning. I have NEVER seen a factory anything that would clean up with a nylon brush and ANY solvent. Again....flame away guys....it is just my .02.

Get a quality cleaning rod, quality rod guide that fits your action and caliber...not one of those onesizefitsall guides...a bunch of bronze brushes, some Butches, Sweets, or whatever, some JB paste or IOSSO and some STRONG copper cleaner. Another problem with the prieviously mentiond "***'s" that guys bring me is that they are FILTHY DIRTY....AFTER they said they were cleaned. I clean will all of the above mentioned solvents and tools, and test with the copper remover. Run a soaked patch of Sweets through your tube after you think it is clean.....wait 10 -15 min and patch out with a clean, white patch. Is there any purple/blue on the patch? My guess is a disturbing "yes". It's do over time!!! Run a search on gun cleaning on this and some of the accuracy websites....there are a million threads out there, and everyone has their opinion about how to properly clean your bore. There will also be a lot that they agree on. Soak it all up.

Just remember to run a shot or two through the gun after it is clean....that 1st shot usually is not going to be in the group...shoot two to be safe. If it were me, I would suspend any more shooting untill I got it cleaned up.....you may be waisting time, bullits, power and BBL life chaising the unobtainable simply because the gun was dirty. Seen it a bunch of times....very common.

 

[Wheatgerm]

My problem was thinking that gun slick foam would do it all. I have been cleaning the gun every time I shoot. I have a carbon fiber rod, Plastic jag, nylon brush. I will not run copper anything down the barrel. I've been using sweets the last 1.5 hours letting it soak 15 min with each wet patch then run a clean patch. Its almost there the patches are now coming out with very little light green vs the dark blue I was getting before.. after this ill let the gun slick foam soak for an hour AGAIN and clean that out then be off to the range to see how these bullets fly out of a clean tube.
yes I will run a shot to re "copperfowl" the barrel before I start my groups.

Im very hopeful this should be alot of the problem. Maybe I've had an accurate berger load the whole time I hope you all know this is pretty embarrassing. But lessons learned

 

[4xforfun]

Don't be afraid of the bonze brush...it is yoiur friend. You may also have a carbon buildup. How many rounds through the gun? I know for a fact that rough, factory bores are like copper mines......not sure if a rough bore has any bearing on carbon buildup...my guess is no. But.... Short stroke a tight patch with some JB or IOSSO, clean up that mess with lots of solvent and patches, and try the copper remover again. You can't "soak" carbon away.....it needs to be physicly removed...scrubbed away. There may well be copper UNDER the carbon. Both are bad in excess.

 

[Wheatgerm]

So the golden "brass" colored brushes aren't bad to use? I've been told differently, but I guess to scrub it first with the brass brush then use the remover after would be ok because anything off the brush should come off easier then copper that's been melted into the barrel. Ill have to look into these other cleaners later but for now I have gun slick, sweets, and hoppes 9 solvent. And all the gun cleaning rod tips like brushes jags ect

 

[Wheatgerm]

I have roughly 100 rounds threw the gun

 

[4xforfun]

So the golden "brass" colored brushes aren't bad to use? I've been told differently, but I guess to scrub it first with the brass brush then use the remover after would be ok because anything off the brush should come off easier then copper that's been melted into the barrel. Ill have to look into these other cleaners later but for now I have gun slick, sweets, and hoppes 9 solvent. And all the gun cleaning rod tips like brushes jags ect

When you scrub your bore with a bronze brush and most any kind of solvent with ammonia in it you will get a false positive when checking for copper....you will get purple MUNG...thick blue/purple GOO !!!! That is why you patch out your bore clean and dry to test for copper. The brush will get most of the carbon and copper out...as will the JB or IOSSO. I would only IOSSO or JB every 100 to 150 rounds or so...especialy the throat area. Brush every time.

 

[Wheatgerm]

What does IOSSO and JB stand for

 

[4xforfun]

What does IOSSO and JB stand for

JB and IOSSO are brands of bore cleaner......a thick paste. It is kind of an abrasive cleaner....like comet for tile...but NOT comet. They are non embedding and will clean the toughest carbon and copper build up. Lots of paste on a tight patch and short stroke the first few inches of your bore closest to the chamber....that is where the carbon can build up. You can actually feel the roughness with a dry patch. Make sure to use lots of wet patches after...maybe even brush the bore a little with lots of solvent (nylon or bronze) and after drying test for copper with a wet patch loaded with copper remover. Also remember to make sure you get ALL of the copper solvent out of the bore when you are finished. The last thing I run through my bore , before a light coat of oil, is a patch sprayed with breakclean. Squeakey clean!!

I know this sounds like a whole bunch of work, but once you get a handle on the buildup and knack for the process it is no big deal...kinda like having kids...ya gotta wash em at least once in a while!!!

 

[Wheatgerm]

alright thanks! i will be coming back to this post alot threw keeping and maintaining my gun. there have been an unbelievable amount of information.. alot deeper than just shooting vld's out of a WSM.

im uploading the pics from my phone to my computer so i can post them a little later, but i just got back from shooting and the
berger 185, 60gr of rl-17, cci #250 mag primers seated as far out as the mag will allow. shot just under a 1inch group WITH A CLEAN BARREL!!! (my buddy said i was a little jumpy on the trigger, my shoulder is a little raw after 3 days of shooting).
and the same load with #200 primers shot just over an inch. INCLUDING my first cold bore "copperfowling" shot in that group.
i know its nothing to go off shooting tournaments about but for a 600 yard factory hunting gun im very happy with it.
all your guys info has been very helpful and hopefully this thread helps others in the future as well. i will post pics as soon as i get them on the comp

 

[liltank]

(my buddy said i was a little jumpy on the trigger, my shoulder is a little raw after 3 days of shooting).

Do yourself a favor and buy a break. You'll never be very accurate if your yanking the trigger in anticipation of recoil.

 

[Wheatgerm]

break will be put on after this elk season. its already paid for. i just didnt want to have to worry about my gunsmith not having time before the hunt and having anything coming down to the deadline ya know..

heres the pictures. top group was with the large rifle primers and my cold bore shot. bottom group is the exact same load i have been having troubles with for the last 2 days!

chrono today was getting right around 2860 avg. and also shot these groups in a roughly 10mph wind.

 

[COBrad]

Again, I'll second 4X. I clean every 20 rounds or so.
I used to shoot a factory Ruger 7 mag that had been bedded into a pretty decent synthetic stock. After 1 fouling shot that rifle would shoot in the .4's for a dozen shots, then number 13 would be out an inch. Clean the rifle and it was a half-MOA rifle again. I carried my cleaning box when I went out shooting prairie dogs with it.
After cleaning with Butches and the bronze brushes, I have been using Wipe Out. I have had good luck with it, as well as Sweets, for removing copper.
If you're getting 1 MOA accuracy out of a factory gun, that's pretty good.

 

[Wheatgerm]

Ya I agree, I was religiously cleaning my gun until the patches came out clean, but I wasn't using the right combo of solvent. Now the gun is clean again im happy with how its shooting.

Thanks im happy with how it shot last night for a factory gun. The bergers were actually very easy to get to shoot once my gun was cleaned the right way. And ill fine tune the load in the off season after I get my muzzle break and a better stock that I can bed it in. But for this moment im happy with 1 inch.